Computer upgrade clarification proposal - any thoughts?

[AndyC]

"a SSA '03 VW Beetle GL 1.8 turbo makes 150 hp. If you allow boost increase in ST, this now ST2 VW will make 220+ hp, a net gain of over 70 Hp....compare to a ST2 '85 BMW 325e, a NA SSA car that benefits greatly from an ECU upgrade. Stock 325e makes 140 HP. The same model with ECU changes will upgrade it to 164 HP..."

The 2.7 liter BMW nets 24 HP, and the 1.8T VW nets 70+ hp. The owner of this VW runs with BMW cca and Auto-X's and he has had no problems running with a lot of upped boost. At 50K miles, the car and the owner (a mechanic) convinced me that there are no worries.

This beetle has run 50k miles with an extra 70 hp on only a chipped ecu?

I had an Audi TT 1.8T. The difference between the 180hp and the 225hp versions were an extra intercooler, different turbo, rods, pistons.. etc... VW saw the need to make a lot of changes to push the 1.8T to 225

http://www.sae.org/automag/newenginereview/audi.htm

I still don't think the wonders of boost are available until SP...

[mossaidis]

interesting... maybe I'm not getting the full scope from my acquintance. I'll believe anything until proven wrong.

And yes, I agree boost upgrading should be reserved until SP as well.

[WillM]

This beetle has run 50k miles with an extra 70 hp on only a chipped ecu?

I had an Audi TT 1.8T. The difference between the 180hp and the 225hp versions were an extra intercooler, different turbo, rods, pistons.. etc... VW saw the need to make a lot of changes to push the 1.8T to 225

http://www.sae.org/automag/newenginereview/audi.htm

I still don't think the wonders of boost are available until SP...

This is only one example, but it is possible to boost the 1.8T Audi/VW engine that much with only a chip & exhaust upgrade. These engines come over engineered from Audi. Check out GoAPR.com for info.

My street-only A4 came stock with 150hp & 160lb-ft. It is now chipped to 200hp & 243lb-ft (according to the chip maker, and my butt-dyno would tend to agree ) . No other mods. Its all about the torque!

Boost control seems to be the only sticky issue around the rule change proposal. Perhaps boost control in ST should have a rule of its own, separate from the proposed ECU rule?

[mossaidis]

Okay then... there you go. 214 HP WOW! I guess my acquintance may have after all succeeded in making the little beetle "jump".

Will, there have been a number of proposals submitted on this thread to help clarify the boost question:

1) boost adjustments are not allowed in SS or ST. If you adjust boost, you go to a very "special place".

2) boost adjustments are allowed in ST (but not in SS). boost adjusted cars in ST are automatically moved up to SSGT.

3) boost adjustments are allowed in ST (but not in SS). any turbo/SC ST cars are reclassified based on max HP that can be safely generated with boost increase

If we go with #2 or #3, I suggest having a caveat stating that any boosted cars in SSGT would require a roll cage for safety reasons. Again, I think BOD needs to discuss this and all the clarifications at the next meeting and/or at Limerock. Perhaps we can to place a vote. In the end, I think we all agree clarification is necessary to keep things reasonably fair, and more importantly, safe.

Any idea what kind of HP increases are available from boosted STi or base WRX's?

[AndyC]

little missunderstanding.. I think that boost control should be allowed in ST, but won't be fully able to realise potential until SP..

Part of the fun of cars for me is modifying the car. It has already been pointed out to me that I don't want a rollbar in my daily driver.. I totally agree with that now. So I do want to be able to adjust boost in ST. That being said, there is no way my car will tolerate another 70 hp without some other changes.

I talked to APR because I find this so interesting.. APR chips modify basically every single engine parameter. Fuel mapping, throttle position, boost control.. Everything.. to allow ecu upgrades means we have to allow piggyback fuel computers, injector duty cycle computers, ignition control, etc.. They are not just raising boost! Its total engine management.. technically I should be allowed to run an aftermarket engine computer.

I certainly don't want to put into SP because I have an extra 20 hp from a manual boost controller, or even STGT for that matter and that 20 hp does not warrant the addition of a rollcage...