Head and Neck part deux

[mtc13]

[ This is an edited copy of my last post on the 'Head and Neck Restraint' thread. I thought the thread was becoming "HANS - centric" and wanted to breathe new life into the topic with this information ]

There is some good info at www.hutchensdevice.com ("Know The Facts"). While the folks at Hutchens are clearly biased, and maybe a little p'ed off that NASCAR has failed them, the article rings true, for me.
They basically say that while their device falls short, barely, of the new, more rigid, standard, in the real world it is still good enough for NASCAR. While as much as admitting that the HANS is the best H&N restraint available, they explain why there's is really more than safe enough, too. I could be wrong, but I don't think they'd risk your and my life out of vanity or a need to succeed.
-And if I AM wrong, well, I'm not likely to get goin' NASCAR speeds in the VW any time soon, so I think the superior protection of the 5-$600 more expensive HANS Device is truly a moot point, for me, even though my life is worth more than $900.

Thanks,
-Michael
_________________

[christine]

I'll bet that not very many women buy the Hutchens. Looks like it adds about 10 minutes to the pre-track-session "pit stop".

Christine
-who has no use for the two-way zipper on the driver's suit

[mtc13]

Yeh! And they're goofy looking, to boot.
( -but we'll get used to them soon enough)

MICHAEL13

[offcamber09]

Although I would doubt that I would buy a used device even if it fit properly. I have been watching some of the classifieds and Ebay. There seems to be a few Hutchins for sale every now and then. I wonder why. Not to re-Hans the thread- but the few I've seen sold on Ebay went for $600+ USED. Crazy if you ask me.
I will admit that if you need to hook a parachute to your arse- the Hutchins is the way to go

[BrakeL8r]

I'll bet that not very many women buy the Hutchens. Looks like it adds about 10 minutes to the pre-track-session "pit stop".

Christine
-who has no use for the two-way zipper on the driver's suit

Christine: Tina has a device much like the Hutchens, and it is really not that bad, getting into and out of. Her's is called the Wright Device. I have one too, except mine is the older style that secures the helmet directly to the shoulder harnesses. I'll probably be getting the body harness over the winter (attaching my head indirectly to the rollbar doesn't seem ideal).[/url]

[BrakeL8r]

I'll bet that not very many women buy the Hutchens. Looks like it adds about 10 minutes to the pre-track-session "pit stop".

Christine
-who has no use for the two-way zipper on the driver's suit

Christine: Tina has a device much like the Hutchens, and it is really not that bad, getting into and out of. Her's is called the Wright Device. I have one too, except mine is the older style that secures the helmet directly to the shoulder harnesses. I'll probably be getting the body harness over the winter (attaching my head indirectly to the rollbar doesn't seem ideal).

[mtc13]

So, Michael Carr, how did you decide The Wright Device was "good enough"? I went to the site and it seems like a perfectly reasonable design concept. The (as previously mentioned, "biased") folks at Hutchens made a disparaging comment about the Wayne State facility where the Wright Device was tested. I take that comment with a grain of salt. But the test results, from Wayne State, that the Wright people have on their web page is Greek, to me.
What else can you tell us?
Thanks-
MichaelTC

[BrakeL8r]

So, Michael Carr, how did you decide The Wright Device was "good enough"?

When I got mine, The HANs device was the only thing out there. The Hutchens and Simpson designs were supposed to be "hitting the shelves any time now", for several months, and I didn't want to wait any longer. At the time, I couldn't justify the expense of the HANs for the levels of speed we carry and the types of contact we typically see.

--Michael
ST4 Miata #176

[jeffreystrong]

I researched and purchased a Wright Device earlier this year. Unfortunately the wrong version of the device was mailed to me. I ordered the RTV (now known as the DTS). This was about the same time that Jay Wright the developer passed away. They did not not have any RTV devices available, and as of right now the family has suspended further sales. I returned mine and ordered a Huthens D-Cell 2, http://www.hutchensdevice.com/home/hutch2.html. I offered mine up for rent for the Limerock event since I was not able to attend, not a single taker. http://www.comscc.com/forums/viewtopic. ... b3ab30dba4

The D-cell 2 is soon to be SFI 38.1 tested. In my own research of the Han's v's Hutchens device, I was really troubled by the fact that the Han's was shown it could come loose after the initial impact and offer no protection for secondary impacts. The D-cell is a combination strap and rigid system, and does not relie on the harness straps to hold it in place.

Jeffrey

[WillM]

I researched and purchased a Wright Device earlier this year. Unfortunately the wrong version of the device was mailed to me. I ordered the RTV (now known as the DTS). This was about the same time that Jay Wright the developer passed away. They did not not have any RTV devices available, and as of right now the family has suspended further sales. I returned mine and ordered a Huthens D-Cell 2, http://www.hutchensdevice.com/home/hutch2.html. I offered mine up for rent for the Limerock event since I was not able to attend, not a single taker. http://www.comscc.com/forums/viewtopic. ... b3ab30dba4

The D-cell 2 is soon to be SFI 38.1 tested. In my own research of the Han's v's Hutchens device, I was really troubled by the fact that the Han's was shown it could come loose after the initial impact and offer no protection for secondary impacts. The D-cell is a combination strap and rigid system, and does not relie on the harness straps to hold it in place.

Jeffrey

Have you received the D-Cell yet? Tried it on? Adjusted it? How did it fit? Is it put together well? How did the helmet modification go? This is one of the restraints I am considering. Just curious, how much do they go for?

Any and all info would be greatly appreciated. I know of many COM'ers that are looking at getting a head and neck restraint before the 2006 season, so this info could be very helpful!

Thanks,

Will

[jeffreystrong]

I ordered my Hutchens D-Cell 2 late summer and used it during the EMRA Limerock Time Trial.

I spent a lot of time agonizing over the cost of a HNR. It was the death at Watkins Glen that made me decide to act.

There are 2 versions of the Hutchens 2, mine is the D-Cell. There are also 2 versions of the D-Cell, the original strap only device $425, and the combination strap and rigid system $750. I spent $750 on my D-Cell 2, and only participated in 2 events because of the cost. I usually participate in 3 or 4 TT annually (did I mention my device was available when i am not using it). I wanted one that did not rely on the harness straps. The other version of the Hutchens 2 connects to the harness at the pelvis and is currently SFI 38.1 certified. I wanted the flexibility of being able to change harness (Latch and Link and Cam) without changing the connecting point of the device straps. I also felt it would be easier for me to loan out to others in this configuration.

My device arrived a couple of weeks after ordering. I was asked my weight and height so that the device could be sized before shipping. It arrived with a 30+ page manual, and the helmet attachment hardware. The harness was well put together, easy to adjust, the rigid part of the system is made of carbon fiber. The instructions were very clear for the installation of the helmet hardware, and took me about an hour to fit to my helmet. The harness is easy enough to put on and has adjustment in the shoulders, chest and thigh straps.

Some of the issues I had with the HNR during my first session I suspect are not unique to this system. Attaching the tether straps to the helmet is a challenge without assistance. Backing up out of the pit stall with the device on is also a challenge since you can not turn your head more than 30 degrees to the left or right, thus you can not turn your head to look behind while backing up. Turning your head for the turn in, apex, and track out takes some getting used to, every time I turned my head I would run into the 30 degree limit. As an Auto-Xer I am used to looking out the passenger and driver side windows for the next maneuver, simple not possible with a HNR.

I did feel more confident in my equipment than my last time at LRP, and was able to explore my limits a little further. Thus my times dropped as well.

[boltonite]

Effective April 1, 2006, all racers must use a Head and Neck Restraint meeting
SFI 38.1 standards. As of December 1, 2005, the following devices have been
approved under the SFI 38.1 standard:

HANS - (888) 426-7999 - www.hansdevice.com

R3 Device - (800) 731-4404 - www.lfttech.com

Hutchens II - (800) 731-4404 - www.hutchensdevice.com

BMW CCA Club Racing will be the first amateur road racing organization to
mandate the use of these devices; we will not be the last. These devices are
currently required for most, if not all, professional racing series in the
country.

Remember our first concern is your safety.

Mike Mills, Acting Chairman
BMW CCA Club Racing

[surgevw]

There were some interesting points on the Hutchens website. Not sure if they were misleading.

I used to ceritfy restraint systems for Freightliner in the 1990s. We would replace the grade 8 1/2-20 bolts after every test (a 30G simulated pull) and would double up the 3 point belts. Otherwise one or the other would fail on the 2nd pull.

The dummys for this test were heavy. More than 300lbs as they were to simulate firefighters with a SCBA tank.

I suspect that a 70G pull on a 180LB person spread over 5 or 6 points offers less of a load per bolt and per belt than 300lb at 30G. It is hard to say, because of the geometry of the mounting points, the body, the belts, the direction of impact, etc. But if multiple tests were performed without changing belts, then they would probably fail.

Not sure much of this applies. Other than there is not a lot of information behind the allegations about the HANS testing which could me misconstrued?

But think about what it takes to fail a 1/2-20 UNF bolt (or a belt). Think about that on your collarbone, waist and ribs. And remember to replace all the safety equipment if it is old or has ever been used.

A few more things. 8 ounces less for the pro version HANS is 8 ounces mass. Times 70Gs makes that 35 fewer pounds force (or less). What is that compared to the mass of the head. The straps take some of it but it looks like some of that force will dig into your middle ribs? A low(er) mass helmet is probably a good thing too.

Be safe!

Seth

[ This is an edited copy of my last post on the 'Head and Neck Restraint' thread. I thought the thread was becoming "HANS - centric" and wanted to breathe new life into the topic with this information ]

There is some good info at www.hutchensdevice.com ("Know The Facts"). While the folks at Hutchens are clearly biased, and maybe a little p'ed off that NASCAR has failed them, the article rings true, for me.
They basically say that while their device falls short, barely, of the new, more rigid, standard, in the real world it is still good enough for NASCAR. While as much as admitting that the HANS is the best H&N restraint available, they explain why there's is really more than safe enough, too. I could be wrong, but I don't think they'd risk your and my life out of vanity or a need to succeed.
-And if I AM wrong, well, I'm not likely to get goin' NASCAR speeds in the VW any time soon, so I think the superior protection of the 5-$600 more expensive HANS Device is truly a moot point, for me, even though my life is worth more than $900.

Thanks,
-Michael
_________________

[modifiede30]

There are a couple other systems not mentioned I thought I'd throw in the mix. One is the Tucker Head Restraint from TeamTech the other is the Isaac System. Here is some info on them.

"TEAMTECH has designed the Tucker Helmet Harness for a head and neck restraint device that professional racer have been using since 2001. This device works with your racing harness to limit your head movement during a crash, cornering, and severe breaking. It has been tested in a dynamic sled test program up to 50G’s and the neck tension has been below 3200 Newton’s during these impacts (Under 4170 Newton’s passes the test)."

More info on the product is at www.teamtechmotorsports.com. I've not been able to find any testing results yet but continue to look. We sell these through our online store and will be adding the Hans devices very soon (http://www.theracingvein.com).

Isaac Head and Neck Restraint (http://www.isaacdirect.com). Pricing is comparable to Hans systems when you go with the basic or intermediate models ($798-$895). Here is some of the site's info.

"The Isaac® head and neck restraint system meets or exceeds the performance requirements of SFI Specification 38.1. Going beyond the SFI specs, the Isaac® system is the only product that reduces lateral head torque by up to 85% and retains the belts on the driver's shoulders in side impacts.

The best reasons to use an Isaac® system?

No Isaac® user has ever died of head injuries.
No Isaac® user has ever broken their neck.
No Isaac® user has ever been trapped in their car by their head and neck restraint.

Those are the important reasons, but at with Isaac® you also get increased flexibility, comfort, ease of use and economy."

There is more information on their website. Although they state above that it meets SFI 3.81 requriements, it is not a certified product. They indicate it fails one of the requirements related to how the device is released during an accident. Apparently, head and neck restraints must be able to be removed by simply releasing the driver seat harness. Since the Isaac attaches to the harness shoulder belts, it does not meet this requirement. I'm sure they're own site is a bit bias when it comes to how well the system works, but they appear to have a pretty good product and data on their site suggests it works pretty well. Another nice thing they offer is a rental program so that you can test the way it feels (although its not securely attached to the helmet and would provide no protection in an accident).

We don't have access to this product but since we are searching for new items to carry in this category, I thought I'd add it to the listing of devices that have been identified in this thread.

Here's a good summary of what's been going on with restraint systems in the industry, as well as a lot of good links to manufacturers (http://www.jayski.com/pages/restraint.htm)

[Mick]

Interesting concept, but I'm not a fan of that system.

No Isaac® user has ever been trapped in their car by their head and neck restraint.

That doesn't mean it's not possible, it just means it hasn't happened.
There could be a lot of reasons why they could claim this.
- How many people are using their system?
- Of that small sample set, how many have had serious crashes?
- Of that subset how many were in a 'trap' scenario where they had to exit the car very quickly?
If I had to guess I'd bet that number is 0.

Their video comparison is interesting as well. To me it looks like HANS fails because the shoulder straps are too loose.