Super class mock TT at WGI

[blindsidefive0]

As COMSCC finishes out the home stretch of the 2013 season, the Board of Directors are looking forward to 2014 and need to determine how to best structure the competitive time trial classes. Touring classes T30-T100 will remain, but Tom Cannon will provide information about how to submit rules proposals to be evaluated by the BOD for implementation in 2014. However, regarding Street Prepared, Prepared, and the proposed Super classes, we are still looking to gather any last input and data and make an informed decision on how best to proceed. While a mock TT was run at NH2, insufficient participation and rain muddled the output.

So what's next?

1) See the next post for the exact text of a proposed Super class rule in this forum. Please take a look at the proposal, and let your favorite BOD member know if you have any feedback. Specifically, we want to hear what you love/hate about the proposal and what you would like to see in 2014: Touring, SP, and P (just like this year), Touring and P only (remove SP), or Touring and Super. Any "tweaks" to Super would also be greatly appreciated.

2) Another mock time trial will be run at Watkins Glen, where we expect significant participation from participants in SP/P/Super classes.

3) At the September 18th BOD meeting, after hearing feedback from members and reviewing the results and member commentary from the Watkins Glen mock time trial, the BOD will evaluate any tweaks that need to be made to the Super proposal. We will also determine whether it should continue to be evaluated at NHMS-3 and eventually brought to a vote later this year.


What do I have to do for Watkins Glen?

Not much... Scrutineers at the WGI event will try to meet with each P/SP (or Touring) competitor to provide "mock classes" for the Super class mock time trial. We won't need to weigh cars or take dyno sheets or anything else of the sort - this is an unofficial mock trial where we just want to provide an opportunity for members to see how the results would shake out. In addition we'll be looking to hear whatever you think of the proposed classes and which system you would prefer next year. Keep in mind that we just need 3 numbers to get you a Super class (horsepower, torque, and weight).


Note - the mock Super class time trial is unofficial, and your results in Prepared/Street Prepared/Touring are all that count for the 2013 season. Finally, please feel free to email nicholas.fontana@gmail.com or parsons.chris@gmail.com if you have any questions - if you provide us with your HP, Torque, and Weight (or your Super class if you already know it), we can get you classed in advance.

See you at Watkins Glen.

[blindsidefive0]

Here is the proposed Super class text for evaluation during the WGI mock TT:

2014 Super Class Rules, Regulations and Car Classifications

Methodology

COMSCC has 5 Super classes, based on a Corrected Power-to-Weight ratio. Modifications allowed to cars in Super classes are unlimited. In addition, any Touring class vehicles with a Total Assessment of greater than 109 (i.e. above the limit of T100) will be placed in a Super class. Competitors qualifying for a Touring class classification may choose to compete in a Super class, provided they meet the Super Class safety requirements

Safety

All Super class competitors must meet the following safety requirements:

• Roll bar, defined as a steel one‐ or two‐hoop roll‐over protection device, solidly mounted to the structure of the car, and provides two inches of space between the top of the roll bar and the top of the driver’s helmet.
• SFI or FIA approved harness with a minimum of 5 points (2 lap belts, 2 shoulder belts, and at least 1 anti‐submarine belt)
• Single layer fire resistant full length suit, gloves, suitable footwear
• Window nets or arm restraints

Note - Please see Driver Requirements and Car Requirements sections for more details.

Classes

Below is a list of the 5 COMSCC Super classes and their modified Corrected Power-to-Weight ratio cutoffs.

• Super Unlimited: Open Wheel Formula Cars below 6.5
• Super A: Non-formula cars between below 9.0, any vehicle between 6.5 and 9.0
• Super B: Any vehicle between 9.0 and 12.25
• Super C: Any vehicle between 12.25 and 16.0
• Super D: Any vehicle above 16.0

Notes
• A competitor may choose to compete any Super class either at or above their determined Super class (i.e. run “up” a class
• Scrutineers may move vehicles up or down within the Super classes at their discretion – specifically, non-formula cars with Corrected Power-to-Weight ratio below 6.5 may be evaluated for placement in Super Unlimited

Weight/Power Formula

The formula for calculating Corrected Power-to-Weight ratio for all Super class competitors is as follows:

• Competition Weight / “Power” + Open Wheel Adjustment Factor (if applicable) = Adjusted Weight / Power Figure
• “Power” = 2/3 wheel horsepower + 1/3 wheel torque
• Weight = the total weight of vehicle plus fluids, driver, ballast and any and all safety and other equipment during competition

Note – proposed Open Wheel Formula = -2.5 (e.g. Formula Continental), proposed Open Wheel Formula w/o front or rear wing = -1.0 (e.g. Formula Vee)

Definition of Open Wheel Formula car – open wheeled, single seater vehicle designed for motorsports equipped with a front and/or rear wing or other device designed to provide downforce
• Scrutineers will have final say in determining which vehicles fall under this classification
• In addition to all F1, F2000, F3, IRL, Indy Lights, etc. vehicles, SCCA Formula Atlantic, Formula 1000, Formula SCCA, Formula Continental, Formula Mazda, Formula Ford, and Formula 500 also fall under this category
• Formula Vee is excluded

Alternate Power calculation

Competitors have two methods by which they may substantiate their power figures:

A. Provide a dyno sheet substantiating the claimed power figure, or
B. Utilize a simple displacement-based calculator to estimate potential power.

Option B:

The following formula may be used in lieu of providing actual power figures for a Super class vehicle, regardless of which value is higher:

Power = Displacement multiplier x Valves/Cylinder Multiplier x RPM Multiplier x Forced Induction Multiplier

• Displacement Multiplier: 85/1 Liter
• Valves/Cylinder Multiplier: 2 valves/cylinder is 0.85, 4 valves/cylinder is 1.0, rotary is 1.0
• RPM Multiplier: ((Max RPM – 6000) / 6000) + 1
• Forced Induction Multiplier: 1.75

Alternate Weight method

Similar to the Alternate Power calculation, competitors may choose to utilize an Alternate Weight method if they would not like to utilize or disclose their actual competition weight. Specifically regarding weight, competitors may:

A. Declare competition weight – note that a scrutineer may request that this value is substantiated either by weighing the car on scales, if available, or viewing other documentation to back-up the claimed weight figure (e.g. picture of the car on scales with a weight readout or printout of a corner weight sheet); OR
B. Utilize the Alternate Weight method – see rules below:

• Production car with known curb weight: Competition Weight = 85% x Curb Weight
• Open Wheel Formula Style vehicle: 1000lb
• All other vehicles: 1500lb

[dradernh]

Alternate Power calculation

Option B:

The following formula may be used in lieu of providing actual power figures for a Super class vehicle, regardless of which value is higher:

Power = Displacement multiplier x Valves/Cylinder Multiplier x RPM Multiplier x Forced Induction Multiplier

• Displacement Multiplier: 85/1 Liter
• Valves/Cylinder Multiplier: 2 valves/cylinder is 0.85, 4 valves/cylinder is 1.0, rotary is 1.0
• RPM Multiplier: ((Max RPM – 6000) / 6000) + 1
• Forced Induction Multiplier: 1.75

I think I see how this works, but can you confirm my math using these specifics:

1 – 3201cc
2 - 4 valves per cylinder
3 - 7600 RPM redline
4 - No FI.

(3.201 X 85) X 1.0 X (((7600-6000) / 6000) + 1.0) X 1.0

272.085 X 1.0 X 1.2667 X 1.0

344.650

Thanks.

[blindsidefive0]

I think I see how this works, but can you confirm my math using these specifics:

That looks good to me. So you have a choice - use 344 as your power figure or use your dyno results (which are around ~290hp +/- IIRC). In your case, it is more advantageous to take the dyno, but if you eventually exceed 344hp, or if you just don't want to worry about actual output (i.e. you like to tinker and don't care about getting your car tuned via a dyno), you can use the calculator instead.

[dradernh]

Cool.

In my case at least, there's a clear advantage to using dyno & scale values rather than the alternate power and weight calculators. These are my results using both methods:

Dyno/Scale: 2893/294.5 = 9.82 = Super B; and,

Alternates: 2699/344 = 7.85 = Super A.

[blindsidefive0]

Doug, thanks for the info - this is one of the areas that I would love to hear from folks about...specifically, are the calculators too aggressive (i.e. very few vehicles will ever surpass or even match the alternate calculator values) or too lenient (i.e. using the calculators becomes the "norm" because they underestimate the capabilities of several vehicles)? For example, the power estimator is basically 85hp/L +/- a couple little things - should this actually be 80hp/L? Should the weight calculator be 88% of curb weight instead of 85%?

[nateh]

The Frankenspec is resting this year, mainly because we knew we need to add power in order to be competitive but we didn't know how much. (In this years rules, competitiveness in PC would have required wild levels of expense.)

The proposed spec will require us to upgrade to be competitive in SC, and that's OK - it will make the car more fun to drive, and it should be affordable.

I suspect that in the short term, the Super classes will be under-subscribed - as the SP and P classes have tended to be over the years. But the clarity and fairness of the specs - especially with the addition allowing people to opt out of the dyno - should be attractive to a whole new population of competitors with interesting or funky cars. The Touring classes provide a much more rational basis for tinkering than we used to have with ST and SS. I think the new Super class will offer the same attractions for the more hare-brained amongst us.

[chaos4NH]

Doug, thanks for the info - this is one of the areas that I would love to hear from folks about...specifically, are the calculators too aggressive (i.e. very few vehicles will ever surpass or even match the alternate calculator values) or too lenient (i.e. using the calculators becomes the "norm" because they underestimate the capabilities of several vehicles)? For example, the power estimator is basically 85hp/L +/- a couple little things - should this actually be 80hp/L? Should the weight calculator be 88% of curb weight instead of 85%?

Just for giggles, I ran the Speed 3 through the options. Option A, using known dyno hp x 2/3 + known dyno tq x 1/3 computes to 258. Using option B = 369.5. That pretty much validates Doug's calculations. Might think you are a little too aggressive! Would bet all would be better off using known HP-TQ and weight. Use you own car and compute it out for an example.

[Chrispy]

Just for giggles, I ran the Speed 3 through the options. Option A, using known dyno hp x 2/3 + known dyno tq x 1/3 computes to 258. Using option B = 369.5. That pretty much validates Doug's calculations. Might think you are a little too aggressive! Would bet all would be better off using known HP-TQ and weight. Use you own car and compute it out for an example.

The idea behind those alternate calculations is that they are not easy to achieve, as routinely exceeding them would defeat the entire calculation. Comparing the alternate calculation with a stock motor isn't going to validate anything.

Given that your motor could easily be built to exceed 369.5 hp says it is quite fair. Just add $$$.

[John F]

Dyno numbers come out to 341 for power and at 2400 pounds puts me in Super A (where I am now). Calculated power is 652, which puts me in Super Unlimited. Doesn't much matter to me either way.

[962porsche]

i have a question about the window nets or arm restiants part of the rules .
i have a closed roof and lexan door glass with a small cut out in the glass to comply with the windows down rule .
i run the car (diasio) in other clubs / sanctioning bodies and have run the car this way with come with out any arm restiants or window nets . there is no way to install window nets in the car as the way the shape of the opening is there is no way to do it . the rule should address cars like this as by rules i can't race this car in comscc .

[jlwhorf]

The safety net/arms restraint rules have not changed from the current P classes. I do not believe that any one gave you any trouble before. You have a safe, purpose built race car, so I would not think you would have a problem now.

[962porsche]

yes this maybe true but i own two cars with the same type if side windows and i in no way want to get protested about that as it seams the cars (diasio and 944 V8 AKA 948 ) will be much more competitive under the new rules .
i don't want what happen to Fred F and the side bars of his roll cage . so i would think rewriting the rules now that adding in a little some thing about fixed lexan rally style side windows would be no big deal and make thing clear as hell .

[jlwhorf]

You should submit a rules change. The window net and rally window basically do the same thing, keep large objects out and arms in. I was not there when it happened, but to me, Fred's protest was definitely splitting hairs.

[nateh]

Within the next few weeks would be a good time to submit a change proposal. The board will start discussing them in the next month or two. You can be at the head of the queue!