COM Sports Car Club

Greetings -

It's time to add to the tool collection. I would like to get a tire changing machine and a wheel balancer. The goals are to a) avoid the aggravation of having to bring tires to the tire store, and then picking them up, and b) $120 per set of 4. I own only one car myself, but I am "responsible" to a greater or lesser extent for the care and feeding of a total of 7 cars. Of these, 3 go to the track. With track and snow tires, there are 14 sets of wheels/tires to care for (ignoring spare tires). I also have an additional 2 sets of track tires unmounted. And that is before I try to generate interest in friends or neighbors. I'm estimating that I'd mount a minimum of 5 sets per year. Balance/re-balance would be 7+ sets per year. (Tire disposal is another issue.)

I figured good used machines would be a good place to start, so I used a couple of craigslist helpers to ensure I saw everything within a 100 mile+ radius. For both changers and balancers I saw a total of 6 reasonable entries, with a scary range of apparent quality. It seems you can get a reasonable balancer for $600 - $800, but changers are north of $1000. One of the entries was this pair of Atlas machines:
http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/2688039569.html.

For used machines I'd like to get both for less than $2000 total. Obviously high quality professional brands like Hunter are thousands new, and still pretty pricey on the used scene.

In researching the brand I found Atlas is a chinese import that positions itself one step better then the lowest price brands. I also found I could buy the pair new, with a slightly better changer that the craigslist ad for essentially the same money: http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas ... ttc229.htm . There is a limited 1 year warrantee.

My electrician brother-in-law said 240v is fine but I should avoid 3-phase power.

ACTION ITEMS:
- Do you own your own machines?
- Have you heard either bad or good things about Atlas brand?
- Do you know anyone selling good used gear?
- Who's heard of Greg Smith equipment? They have a warehouse in Hudson, NH.
- Should I just get the new Atlas stuff?

Thanks for your input.

I have owned 5 tire machines in my life..and my 4th was an Atlas,similar design to what you are looking at. (mine was a little bigger) I bought it new from Greg Smith. I absolutely HATED it!! It actually had hammer marks covering it by the time I finally traded it in for a better machine.Most frustrating machine I have ever had the displeasure to operate!
The thing was a destroyer! I now have a Hunter TC3250,with a 3rd hand option,and look foreward to tire jobs.
The C arm style rim clamp machines are Ok for most "normal" passenger wheels/tires,but you will curse and swear trying to mount/dismount low profile performance tires...especially on 17" or larger,wide rims.(>8")
Yes,I know you don't want to spend big money on a tire machine..but the fact is..the older style C arm rim clamp machines suck for mounting low pro tires onto wide, tall alloy wheels.
The newer design uses what I call a "crane" arm,and are an absolute JOY to use. No bent/gouged rims,NO torn or damaged tires. Damage one $500 wheel,or tear a $400 tire, and you will curse your crappy tire machine

This is a "C" arm machine: (makes me angry just looking at it.. )




This is a "crane" arm:



You can find the "crane" arm style machines used for reasonable money..in the $2-3k range. Yes,more than you want to spend..but what good is a $1k machine that won't do what you need it to do? Been there, done that.

A used Hunter TC3250 or TC3500 would be in $2-3 range,and available. A friend bought one last month from a Nissan dealership down the Cape for $2k,off of Craigslist.

As far as balancers go,they are all about the same,some handle large truck tires etc. Just make sure the one you buy will do the size (width/diameter)tires you will be using,and parts are readily available for it..still. I have an old Snap-on unit that works very well.Keeping the tire balancer calibrated is the most important issue with them.
I have had excellent luck with Lappens for garage equipment,and they have used and reconditioned units. http://www.lappens.com/

Open an account with the local Town Fair Tire...and..buy some tires.....and they will take your old ones for free...all of them. They also will supply you with free valve stems,wheel weights,bead sealer,tire lubricant (although I prefer using Fluid Film) Good perks.
Almost makes tire work...fun! Almost...

I have a Hunter TC300 with a C arm. I bought it off Craigslist for $600. Well worth the money. It came with spoons and a new plastic head. I've never scratched a wheel with the plastic head.

I'm still on the lookout for a proper balancer. I've been using an old school wobble balancer from Harbor Freight. It gets them in the ballpark, but its never perfect. Fine for track tires and annoying on my daily driver.

Hi Mark - thanks for the detailed post. Pictures are always compelling. In general I agree with the philosophy that cheap tools often are a diversion from getting the better tools that you really needed in the first place.

Hi Pete - Should I deduce from the fact your post comes after Mark's that you dissent with his opinion that C-arm types are evil? Let me really fish for it here - do you assert that you are satisfied with the adequacy of your Hunter TC300 for mounting stiff sidewall race tires with low profiles on size of 17x8 or larger?

Anyone want to comment on a Coats 5060? eg: http://www.racingjunk.com/Other/2362199 ... CHINE.html.

I do about 40-50 tire replacements a week on various cars and trucks, and anything over 18" was tough on the C arm machines that I have had,the last one was the Atlas. I remember a 2005 Volvo XC90 18"x8.5 wheel that was pretty much a send it out job,or nick the wheel..I swear the powdercoat was soft as lead..and the rim edge would not hold well in the rim clamp jaws.My Team Dynamics 1.2 Pros have the same..delicate coating. I had a tough time with most any 35 or less low profile street tire. You had to be real careful..some would stall the table.
Most C arm machines have to index the wheels perfectly parallel on the table,as the dismount head can not follow the wheel edge horizontally once the dismount height is set (touchless) above the wheel rim. If the wheel edges are not perfectly parallel,(because of wheel weights,dirt,etc) the dismount arms steel edge can become a lathe..snapping the plastic protector off the steel tool edge,and into the rim.It happens quickly if the machine is working hard on a tough tire/wheel combo and shifts suddenly.Most table top C arm machines use multiple metal jaws to grip the wheels inner rim edge and hold the wheel to the table,in the working position.Slippery surfaces like powdercoating,grease, etc. can reduce the ability of the teeth to hold...and can cause damage themselves.

The "crane" arm design dismount head floats freely in the horizontal and vertical plane and will not gouge,and the head is completely made of nylon plastic.If there is an issue,the dismount head will sacrifice itself before causing rim damage. The dismount head cost $10 to replace,and I have never broken one.(in about two+ years)
Most "crane" arm machines also use an underneath internal expanding rubber gripping "fingers" setup to hold/clasp the inner barrel of the wheel..no chance of damage.Precision alignment is not needed.,due to the ability of the dismount head to full float.
So..it really comes down to what would make your life easier. That's my tire machine story....

Here's a thought..try one of your targeted wheels/tires on Petes machine..and then try the same setup on mine. I'm here most of the time..somewhere...

Decide for yourself between the designs and your needs...

Petes Hunter TC300 is actually a hybrid "C" arm machine...plastic head,no flat table. He got a great deal on his for $600.

They even have 'leverless" tire machine designs out today. Choose your weapon!

TC3250 "crane" arm with finger grip on rim and 'Robo" arm helper.(missing plastic dismount head)

Nothing to add to the intelligent discussion here, but... guys, have you considered offering mounting/balancing services to COM folks for a reasonable price? I'm sure this could be beneficial to both sides.

For anyone in the area od Nashua-Manchester-Keene, Ted Drotloff will dismount an old tire and mount the new one for $10.00. Not sure what brand, but I I have seen him mount and dismount lots of low profile and R compound rubber with no problem. BTW, I believe his balancing rig died and he is looking for a new(er) one.

chaos4NH wrote:For anyone in the area od Nashua-Manchester-Keene, Ted Drotloff will dismount an old tire and mount the new one for $10.00. Not sure what brand, but I I have seen him mount and dismount lots of low profile and R compound rubber with no problem. BTW, I believe his balancing rig died and he is looking for a new(er) one.

thats correct sam, the balancer is dead at the moment and i havent been activly looking for a new one yet. ive been looking at bigger things to buy like a house. mount and balance usually cost 10/wheel as long as i dont have to remove the wheel from the car. dismount/mount new tire without balancing at the moment i will do for 5/wheel.

ted

peterfontana wrote:Hi Mark - thanks for the detailed post. Pictures are always compelling. In general I agree with the philosophy that cheap tools often are a diversion from getting the better tools that you really needed in the first place.

Hi Pete - Should I deduce from the fact your post comes after Mark's that you dissent with his opinion that C-arm types are evil? Let me really fish for it here - do you assert that you are satisfied with the adequacy of your Hunter TC300 for mounting stiff sidewall race tires with low profiles on size of 17x8 or larger?

Anyone want to comment on a Coats 5060? eg: http://www.racingjunk.com/Other/2362199 ... CHINE.html.

I'm happy with it. I'm sure I'd struggle with something really low profile. The guy I bought it from was selling because it wouldn't do a 19" or larger wheel and he upgraded to one that would. I don't have much trouble with the 17x9 wheels and race tires, but it would be easier with a better machine. I had a TC3500 in the shop I used to work and low profile tires were still a bit of a bear. I remember sweating and cursing while swapping some 245/40/18 runflats on a Lexus SC430 in the middle of the summer. I'd gladly pay someone to do those for me!

nile13 wrote:Nothing to add to the intelligent discussion here, but... guys, have you considered offering mounting/balancing services to COM folks for a reasonable price? I'm sure this could be beneficial to both sides.

I would offer that service, but like I said earlier I can't balance. Once I have a balancer I'll be happy to help out other COM members.

The robotic arms makes all the difference in the world when mounting runflats...which are a huge waste of money in my eyes,and offer dismal performance. I pretty much talk all my customers away from using them.

As far as offering tire mounting/balancing to COM members, I am open 8-6 M-F and will tackle most anything..short of split rims. Breakaway Automotive-508-882-3488 located waaaay out in the country..Oakham,Ma. Leave a message,as I am a one person operation and don't answer the phone much...

Fastrack has always mounted and balanced loose (off the car) race tires for $10. We have a Coates 9024 tire machine (fantastic machine) and a Hunter RoadForce balancer. Best of all, I do 80% of the tires and have close to 25 years experience.

Happy Holidays

Fastrack Automotive
147 Summit St Ste. 10
Peabody, MA. 01960
978-977-0707

I don't balance my autocross tires, so that's not a problem. Closest to Boston wins Peabody doesn't sound too bad for some daily driver tires with balancing, just need to somehow get them up there.

On a related note. Do we know anyone who can inexpensively straighten alloy rims?

"On a related note. Do we know anyone who can inexpensively straighten alloy rims?" Careful about wheel repairs.. Forged alloy wheels can sometimes be repaired..but cast get tossed if bad..at least by me. (..even on a street car) Wheels are almost as important as tires.Almost..

Just wanted to thanks Scott and his guys for installing a set of my Hoosiers yesterday and another set about a month ago. Great place, great bunch of guys and I can heartily recommend them. I don't say these things often, but their service and attitude certainly merits this. Well worth the drive to Peabody for me.

Thanks!