Running NHMS clockwise

[eastcoastbumps]

Is there any good reason we don't run NHMS clockwise? I think it would add a little variety to a very heavy NHMS schedule (especially since we cant run the oval any more).

[breakaway500]

Interesting. Would the track allow it? Does anyone run the track CW?

[boltonite]

Unless you run the north oval, pitting out at pit in is a problem: narrow and no "blend line".

I ran NH CW once when the south portion of the track was torn up: we ran down the right side of pit lane, did a 180 onto the front straight, went CW around north oval, up T10 and around until T3 where we turned right at the bottom of the hill and went thru where the tire barrier is usually located, thru the south chicane and back onto pit lane (pit-in was on the left side, the right side was the CW portion of the front straight). There were cones or tires separating where cars traversed the same portion of the track near T10 where the north oval and south chicane converge. It was interesting, not sure the track would have allowed it if there was no construction.

[jlwhorf]

I ran NH CCW once when the south portion of the track was torn up: we ran down the right side of pit lane, did a 180 onto the front straight, went CCW around north oval, up T10 and around until T3 where we turned right at the bottom of the hill and went thru where the tire barrier is usually located, thru the south chicane and back onto pit lane (pit-in was on the left side, the right side was the CW portion of the front straight). There were cones or tires separating where cars traversed the same portion of the track near T10 where the north oval and south chicane converge. It was interesting, not sure the track would have allowed it if there was no construction.

I was there that day too! I think it was a boston bmw event. I was a student then and drove the configuration before my instructor did. The really good part of that configuration was taking the uphill from turn 11, we where moving much faster when approaching with a more straight angle.

I believe that Ed Vapley (chief instructor wmc bmw and vsra) said that he ran it ccw and that going down hill into 3 was not good.

[TroyV]

At the last event, I was in Mick's truck when we were driving the speedy-dri onto the line where the track had been oiled, and seeing the track from those angles (11 back to 7) was very interesting. I'm sure the lines through 10 and 3 would be challenging.

[DanB]

As someone once told me: "Variety is the ONLY aphrodesiac."

[Mick]

There are some tracks I would love to run in the opposite direction. NH would be really interesting but there are sections that would be pretty dangerous. When you're coming back from 11 through 10 you'd be going right for the wall at the uphill transition. Judging by how many people blow 3 which is a similar corner, I imagine we'd have a lot of people into the concrete.

Another point to consider is the flagging stations.They're usually placed in positions where the workers can see down the track in the direction the track is run, they're not always optimal for running the opposite direction.

...still, I would love to give any of them a try.

[WillM]

I was also at the BMW event where we ran backwards. There was construction at T2, I thought.

Anyway, I wasn't a big fan of it. The hairpin 180° turn at the end of the front straight, around pit wall, and back down through the pits wasn't very fun.

I agree with Mick. In addition to T10, going backwards through T6, T4, & T3 wouldn't leave nearly as much runoff.

On top of that, most of the Miatas would start rolling backwards before cresting the uphill at T9.

[breakaway500]

Would the track even allow CW running?

[brucesallen]

Been here, done that. In 1990 (or was it '91) right after the track was first done the instructor group tried it at the end of the day. UNSAFE!
Picture yourself screaming down from turn 5 to 4 and 3. If you don't brake well, you fly right into turn 10!! We nixed it.

Interesting to note that turn 6,5,4 are similar to Bryar and that was run in this backward direction. The big difference is that the present 3, 4 was much tighter and a VERY steep banking best for motorcycles. It was not possible to fly off the outside.

[Stynger]

I ran NH CCW once when the south portion of the track was torn up: we ran down the right side of pit lane, did a 180 onto the front straight, went CCW around north oval, up T10 and around until T3 where we turned right at the bottom of the hill and went thru where the tire barrier is usually located, thru the south chicane and back onto pit lane (pit-in was on the left side, the right side was the CW portion of the front straight). There were cones or tires separating where cars traversed the same portion of the track near T10 where the north oval and south chicane converge. It was interesting, not sure the track would have allowed it if there was no construction.

I was there that day too! I think it was a boston bmw event. I was a student then and drove the configuration before my instructor did. The really good part of that configuration was taking the uphill from turn 11, we where moving much faster when approaching with a more straight angle.

I believe that Ed Vapley (chief instructor wmc bmw and vsra) said that he ran it ccw and that going down hill into 3 was not good.

I too was at that event. A U turn at the end of the straight was fun, as was flying over the hill in 4.
I seem to remember a few of the instructors bailing because of safety concerns coming down 10 towards cars coming out of the chicane. There was talk of doing it again, but it never happened.

[horizenjob]

The big difference is that the present 3, 4 was much tighter and a VERY steep banking best for motorcycles. It was not possible to fly off the outside.

There was a runoff area at the entrance of the old turn 8, we used to point it out to students during the walk around. Sometimes cars did run too wide at the exit though. People sometimes mess up on the slowest corners, it's easy to get over ambitious. The shape of that old turn was a more consistent bank all the way around, but not as steep as turn 6. I'm not sure the new 3, 4 would be so fun backwards.

[eastcoastbumps]

Unless you run the north oval, pitting out at pit in is a problem: narrow and no "blend line".

I have some extra paint we could use.

There are some tracks I would love to run in the opposite direction. NH would be really interesting but there are sections that would be pretty dangerous. When you're coming back from 11 through 10 you'd be going right for the wall at the uphill transition. Judging by how many people blow 3 which is a similar corner, I imagine we'd have a lot of people into the concrete.

Another point to consider is the flagging stations.They're usually placed in positions where the workers can see down the track in the direction the track is run, they're not always optimal for running the opposite direction.

...still, I would love to give any of them a try.

You'd want to sacrifice a bit of turn 10 for 9. Anyone out against that wall would be off line. It wouldn't be like Champions Wall at Montreal where you have to track out all the way to be fast, but you would have to be careful (like turn 2 and 12 where trackout ends with a wall as well). You also wouldn't be going into it with the same kind of speed as turn 3 CCW.

The turn 2 flagging station would be the only one really out of place. They'd have to be on the other side of the track or closer to turn 3. 10 could be swapped to the inside and 3 to the outside, but may work where they are.

Been here, done that. In 1990 (or was it '91) right after the track was first done the instructor group tried it at the end of the day. UNSAFE!
Picture yourself screaming down from turn 5 to 4 and 3. If you don't brake well, you fly right into turn 10!! We nixed it.

Thats how it is when you run CCW as well. Botch turn 3 and you're out in turn 10. Another option for increased run out would be to turn onto the back straight, rather than continue onto the typical turn 3. That would leave plenty of run off and also decrease the speed of the corner.

What would it take to be able to do this?

[WillM]

Picture yourself screaming down from turn 5 to 4 and 3. If you don't brake well, you fly right into turn 10!!

Thats how it is when you run CCW as well. Botch turn 3 and you're out in turn 10.

Well, not exactly. If we were running the opposite direction, and a car crested T5 at speed, botched the braking zone for T4, and went straight off, they would hit a short uphill sloping stretch of grass and then get launched over T10 by the concrete wall, which means there would be a 6' (maybe more?) drop.

While that would be insanely cool in a Dukes of Hazard kind of way, not all of us have the General Lee's off-road suspension.

During our time trial at the Nov event, we had a car blow its motor at T8 and oil down the braking zone of T9 (to say the least). The next car launched right over T9 and landed in the weeds. If the same thing had happened in the situation above, I'm not so sure Bill would have been screaming "YE-HAWWW GOOD BUDDY!!!"

[horizenjob]

I don't know if it makes sense to try to run that track backwards... One way it might be made safer would be using cones to modify the dangerous corner in question. Turn 3 certainly doesn't look fun in the current configuration, if somehow things go bad.

Doesn't seem to be something to be done lightly though. It's too bad, the original track was run both ways and it does make a track seem like a whole new place and fun to learn all over again.