a lightened flywheel/clutch can add greatly to acceleration. Less angular mass to spin up. Acts same as car weight.Grippy wrote:Streetable is a relative term, everyone has a different opinion as what that means.
I support the flywheel/clutch swap in ST, it doesn't add any power, doesn't touch the engine, and is a popular bolt-on street mod.
ST class is supposed to be for the guy who wants to make their car a bit faster WITHOUT opening the engine. So that only leaves bolt-on mods. I really don't see a downside and it is impossible to police. if it were legal I would have one. But I don't want one bad enough to get bumped to SP, at least not yet.
Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
- brucesallen
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Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
Bruce Allen
The Greased Shadow
"It's all about the fast lap"
The Greased Shadow
"It's all about the fast lap"
Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
Bruce,
I think Greatly is a huge exaggeration of the effects of a light flywheel. It is subtle at best and only really felt in 1st and 2nd gear. At least in a real car, maybe it is different in a 1000 lb gokart.
I think Greatly is a huge exaggeration of the effects of a light flywheel. It is subtle at best and only really felt in 1st and 2nd gear. At least in a real car, maybe it is different in a 1000 lb gokart.
Gordon Andrade
#10 Super C MX-5
#10 Super C MX-5
- breakaway500
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Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
It's ALL different in a 1k.lb. "go-cart". Less rotating mass means more Hp available to propel. If there is less to propel,all the better.
It's not what you drive, it's how you drive. "Lap times matter"
Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
The level of effect would depend on how much lighter the flywheel or total weight of the clutch assembly is. I had a pretty noticable difference going from an iron flywheel to an aluminum flywheel, and then to a multi-disc. I agree that a flywheel that is 5 lbs lighter would not be that significant. But then again, without pulling the trans, how would you police it anyway?Grippy wrote:Bruce,
I think Greatly is a huge exaggeration of the effects of a light flywheel. It is subtle at best and only really felt in 1st and 2nd gear. At least in a real car, maybe it is different in a 1000 lb gokart.
Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
Getting back to Will,
Thanks for the history lesson. I was half joking to see what kind of response I'd get. This car has been an excercise in "don't mess with it too much". In fact, I set the dampers once two seasons ago, and I haven't changed them since. Those adjustment knobs could be rusted solid right now for all I know. Aside from normal wear items/consumables, I haven't changed a thing. I had Fastrack set the car up at the beginning of 2010, and it has been very consistent all year.
I snoop around the car to make sure everything is working, check the fluids, put gas in it, and then beat on the thing like a mule.
Thanks for the history lesson. I was half joking to see what kind of response I'd get. This car has been an excercise in "don't mess with it too much". In fact, I set the dampers once two seasons ago, and I haven't changed them since. Those adjustment knobs could be rusted solid right now for all I know. Aside from normal wear items/consumables, I haven't changed a thing. I had Fastrack set the car up at the beginning of 2010, and it has been very consistent all year.
I snoop around the car to make sure everything is working, check the fluids, put gas in it, and then beat on the thing like a mule.
Troy Velazquez
#5 T50
#5 T50
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Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
Please make sure you put gas in it!
- brucesallen
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Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
It is true, my car originally came with a stock mazda 2.3 flywheel- maybe 22 lbs and almost two feet across. After many transmission problems due to no clutch shifting they changed the spec to a four pound 5 inch double disc racing clutch. So it all depends on how much the rotational inertia changes. Back when I modified my 86 RX7 the aluminum flywheel with all the weight at the center made a big difference too-- esp. in a 10,000 rpm bridge ported engine.Grippy wrote:Bruce,
I think Greatly is a huge exaggeration of the effects of a light flywheel. It is subtle at best and only really felt in 1st and 2nd gear. At least in a real car, maybe it is different in a 1000 lb gokart.
Bruce Allen
The Greased Shadow
"It's all about the fast lap"
The Greased Shadow
"It's all about the fast lap"
Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
When will the club end up voting on the lightweight flywheel/upgraded clutch rule change? Again as many people have said, upgraded clutch/flywheels are nearly impossible to police (especially "streetable" clutch kits) and they are a common upgrade for street cars. I also don't think they will give a noticeable advantage over cars with oem clutches/flywheels besides making the car more fun to drive and more durable for track abuse. When it comes to keeping the class affordable, I don't think upgraded clutches or flywheels are out of the realm of competitors especially when people are doing 1.6 to 1.8 swaps, ecu upgrades and tunings, and differential swaps. This is a good debate though and I look forward to hearing the final decision.
Derek
#01 T40
1995 Miata
#01 T40
1995 Miata
Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
Has anyone even submitted a Rules Change request? Any MEMBER can do that.Dtangard wrote:When will the club end up voting on the lightweight flywheel/upgraded clutch rule change? Again as many people have said, upgraded clutch/flywheels are nearly impossible to police (especially "streetable" clutch kits) and they are a common upgrade for street cars. I also don't think they will give a noticeable advantage over cars with oem clutches/flywheels besides making the car more fun to drive and more durable for track abuse. When it comes to keeping the class affordable, I don't think upgraded clutches or flywheels are out of the realm of competitors especially when people are doing 1.6 to 1.8 swaps, ecu upgrades and tunings, and differential swaps. This is a good debate though and I look forward to hearing the final decision.
Sam
Chief of Operations
#41 Nissan 200SX SER T40
Chief of Operations
#41 Nissan 200SX SER T40
Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
^He said he submitted one.Dtangard wrote:Jeff,
I support a clutch rule change and submitted one to include any flywheels. I figure if I'm going to upgrade the clutch why not do the flywheel as well.
-Derek
Paul G.
#12
#12
Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
There are multiple rules changes submitted around clutches/flywheels.chaos4NH wrote: Has anyone even submitted a Rules Change request? Any MEMBER can do that.
Jeff Wasilko
On the Track: 1995 Miata #08
To the Track: 2007 Volvo 780
On the Street: 2017 Volvo V60 Polestar
On the Track: 1995 Miata #08
To the Track: 2007 Volvo 780
On the Street: 2017 Volvo V60 Polestar
Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
Thanks Jeff. Hope to see them at the Dec meeting.jeffw wrote:There are multiple rules changes submitted around clutches/flywheels.chaos4NH wrote: Has anyone even submitted a Rules Change request? Any MEMBER can do that.
Sam
Chief of Operations
#41 Nissan 200SX SER T40
Chief of Operations
#41 Nissan 200SX SER T40
Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
I figure I'll just throw it out there.....
If anyone is interested in my 1.6, feel free to PM me. It runs great, but uses some oil at high RPM. I was thinking about keeping the RB header, the CAS and some other trinkets, but on the other hand, I could leave the engine as a complete and running unit if someone wanted it. It will be available around February.
If anyone is interested in my 1.6, feel free to PM me. It runs great, but uses some oil at high RPM. I was thinking about keeping the RB header, the CAS and some other trinkets, but on the other hand, I could leave the engine as a complete and running unit if someone wanted it. It will be available around February.
Troy Velazquez
#5 T50
#5 T50
Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
....btw...I'm committed at this point.
If the BOD changes the swap rule..... I will be very VERY pissed.....and in SPC.
If the BOD changes the swap rule..... I will be very VERY pissed.....and in SPC.
Troy Velazquez
#5 T50
#5 T50
- blindsidefive0
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Re: Ok, who is making changes in ST4?
Just curious (not really a miata guy), how much more whp can you expect from the 1.8 versus the 1.6 once you include all the legal Street Touring mods like exhaust, chip, whatever?TroyV wrote:....btw...I'm committed at this point.
If the BOD changes the swap rule..... I will be very VERY pissed.....and in SPC.
- Nick
nicholas.fontana@gmail.com
1999 Mazda Miata - T50
FS: 1997 Green BMW M3 - T80/SC
RIP: 1994 White BMW 325i - SSB
nicholas.fontana@gmail.com
1999 Mazda Miata - T50
FS: 1997 Green BMW M3 - T80/SC
RIP: 1994 White BMW 325i - SSB
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