Longer session times for run groups 1&2

[962porsche]

i for one like things just the way they are . you need the first lap or two under yellow for reconnaissance and getting tires up to temp. there are times with comscc we do get 30 minute runs but i for one have never noticed more or less open laps . if your in a train of cars just do a pit drive throw .

[breakaway500]

I am NOT advocating balls to the walls first lap out running.It could be controlled like any other passing situation.
Everyone warms up at a different pace,the same as everyone cruises at a different pace.
Driving behind a car for 1 or two laps at less than my warm up speed means I will have to take an additional lap or two to get up to speed.
Some peoples pace is slower than others. I certainly don't want to hold up anyone any more than be held up.
What is the difference between passing on the frst lap and passing on the second?
If you are late out of the pits,you enter a green track and you will be passed on your first lap.
Allowing passing on the out lap makes perfect sense. It's not unsafe unless you make it unsafe by passing incorrectly.
It is not a time to see if your wheels are falling off or you forgot to close your hood etc...it is a time to get up to speed.
If you are not prepared to go out on track,you should not be out there.
There are track personnel/flaggers stationed around the track and their job is to make sure the track is ready.If not,they don't let the session start.
On any lap on track you may have debris or other objects in the road.

What if it were tried once to see the effects gained? (ADVANCED run groups) It really does ease up traffic right away.

How about during the second day practice runs for groups 1 and 2?

I am all for safety,but I actually see this as an asset to safety by allowing cars to spread out quicker.

Who wants to see 5 cars stacked up behind them on the warm up laps? Not me..

I am enjoying this banter...

[jlwhorf]

How about hold the yellow for a lap or 2 on the first session of the day to get people aquainted with the placement of the cones and such. Then start the following sessions on a hot track because everyone has already warmed up. Also, with a 1 lap yellow, the first guys out, often run for 2 laps before the yellow flags come in anyway. Come on guys, groups 0,1,2 drivers are experienced enough to start on a hot track and not get in trouble.

I have never had much luck with a drive though to get out of a train.It seems that when have done that, I have waited for the track to clear before I enter, and end up joining the tail of the pack anyway.

[6PAK72]

From the newbie who's making progress:

Group 3 parameters:
NHMS 1 was my first time on track with this group - it was a huge stretch for me and the yellow lap allowed my instructor to set some things firmly in my mind. That was good. 22 minutes felt like a life time, and we came in several times in later laps to review. That's good - Thanks, Lee.

I work hard at playing nice with others so I'm really aware of point by, especially at NHMS. With the 340hp turbo's buzzing the 118hp TR, I was very unsetttled, and even more so, I knew I was in the way and began to overdrive both my skill level and the track trying to support the rest of the drivers. NOT good.

I feel that the Group 3 balance is good - So maybe keep yellow no passing 1st lap, but extend the time, and the instructors pull people in when needed.


Group 2 parameters:
Having moved up, thanks to the blessings of my iron-nerved instructors, I'm no longer a complete menace to track time for the other drivers. I appreciate the yellow lap to get my head into the groove, check the cones, remember the track - all things I need personally to do because my frequency on track is not high yet.

I'm so used to the point-by system that passing on the first lap would be comfortable. I still want the head time, and as I'm running street-rubber, I LIKE the tires getting warmer slower on the TR.

Whenever I've seen drag on track time is 2 places: 1.getting out of class in enough time to prep the car for the instructor, and 2.getting the instructor into the car, and 5-point and harness. The open-top definitely costs me a lap, and both Nate and Lee will share that other student responsibilies made him late to load in on my runs occasionally.

I just ran Watkins with NEQ and the last run of the second day was extended because of a black flag. We ran 35 minutes...it was incredible. The constant repetition of line and braking point over that span allowed me to lock in a line, then intentionally change it in 2 laps as my instructor told me what he wanted.

So I definitely benefitted from extended track time.

Though I was solo'd with NEQ at WG, I'm not solo'd with COM yet, so I would appreciate any added hot lap time so as to progress to the point where I can participate further.

Great dialogue!

[breakaway500]

Jeff,didn't you find passing on the first lap with NEQ refreshing? Then again,I am not sure which class you ran with. They may not have done it with the green and yellow groups,but the longer sessions were very nice.

I agree,the outlap passing should be for ADVANCED groups. Just because you can pass,does not mean you have to.It also does not mean you have to speed up your warm-up lap either. Everyone can go at their own paces,and not back up traffic. Isn't that the whole idea? I hate it when there are 5 cars behind me on the warm up lap,all eager to get up to their own speed. I could point them by immediately when they came up on the first lap with NEQ. I also dislike parading around for a lap (or two) behind a car that is much slower to warm up. Usually,this means a line of cars end up behind me...now what? Point them by first,or pass? It was a nice advantage to have the warm up passing allowed.

It could be done saftely. I have seen it in use,and it works well.

It is all about the fast lap,right?

[DanDarcy]

I feel the first lap of each group should be run under yellow, after that I don't see where we need a yellow for the first lap of the following sessions. At a track like Watkins Glen a lap can be 3 minutes or more for some people, thats a long time to be behind a slow car, sometimes the yellow is 2 laps that's 6 minutes, plus if its your 2nd or higher session, your car is already warmed up some and you know what condition the track is in for that day.

[Stynger]

I feel the first lap of each group should be run under yellow, after that I don't see where we need a yellow for the first lap of the following sessions.

We have Dan in our group, we are guaranteed the first few laps will be under yellow.

[Mick]

I feel the first lap of each group should be run under yellow, after that I don't see where we need a yellow for the first lap of the following sessions.

We have Dan in our group, we are guaranteed the first few laps will be under yellow.

Haha! That's cold.

[DanDarcy]

I'm so disappointed in you Les, I've only said great things about your ability and great driving skills. It's a shame when other drivers have to critized my misfortune while I was driving in the rain in an unfamiliar car. I've been driving with Com for over 6 years and that was my first spin , I didn't even go off track, as the wall held the car on the track.

HAHAHAHAHA ---- Got you

I will never be the first car out again and I promise to drive slow ----real slow ---- real real real slow on the first lap of the day, I want to make at least one lap on track for an event

[breakaway500]

This only goes to show how senseless the current yellow outlap policy truly is. Had Dan been allowed to let other drivers pass during that outlap,he would not have felt pressured to keep the pace so high.

Besides...I heard it was black ice...

Yellow laps suck. First lap,and any lap. The less we have,the better!

[brucesallen]

I have found that yellow flags for the student group in the first session of the day-- sometimes for two or three laps is a real problem. Especially in Group 4 it is usually the instructor driving but yet there are a few newbies too. This means the instructors must use up all the student's time for 4 laps in order to show the student a reasonable-speed lap on line. I don't think the student groups ever need yollow out-laps because there is always an instructor aboard to limit the speed of the newbie. In the first 45 years or so of the club's existence we didn't do this. Do we have more lawyers now?

[boltonite]

I believe at one time COM had no passing zones and point-by's were optional -- combined with no standing yellow, you could pass anyone, anywhere, at any time after exiting pit lane...

Down with trains! Down with standing yellows! Down with passing zones! Down with point-by's! When we say: "We are all about the fast lap" we really mean it!

FF

[breakaway500]

Umm..I'd be happy with passing (point bys..) on the outlap for now...

Intersting history about passing regulations on track..which were basically..none.. That would pretty make it a free for all,literally...

Is that how they run test days at NHMS?

[jlwhorf]

Is that how they run test days at NHMS?

Yeah pretty much. Don't knock it if you haven't been out there. People tend to be a lot more curtious when they know they can be passed at any time. Also when people pass you, you don't need to take you hands off the steering wheel.

[breakaway500]

I'm not knocking it, just have not experienced it at track speeds. You would have to be very aware to the rear at all times. One of those BIG parabolic mirrors would be on my list..
If I didn't have to point by, I would not need cup holders any more.