BMW White Mountain says no Atom,no solo.

[timmmy]

I believe a lot of the issue is probably to do with protecting instructors form being put in a situation they are not comfortable with as others here have said. Sadly blanket rules from national are impacting personal choice in regional chapters. I enjoy running with the BMW club, and their 'orange stripe' advanced group open passing school is a great Idea I would like the see adopted by COM, as it adds a whole new level of skills to learn that are one step closer to wheel to wheel racing.

I also work with Audi track events and they too have a strict cage rule for convertibles, however they are more flexible. I picked up a student in a Miata who only had a rear hoop after they asked me if I felt comfortable instructing in the car (as I run a Miata with a hoop).

It is a tricky situation, I think the hard part is that the Atom is being looked at as if it is not a road car, which it clearly is.

H

[breakaway500]

I have attended a few Audi (NEQ) events and their tech guys had no problem with my Miata and it's roll bar/no full cage.They did not require me to be signed off either..although...I was with Dan,who is an NEQ instructor..so that may have pulled some weight.Their events are well run and very enjoyable.Passing on the outlap,and 30 minute sessions. I have not tried to run the Atom with them..yet. Instructors can run anything.
The Atom is really a street car that I have turned into a track car,for obvious reasons. I am one of only a few who actually compete with the Atom on track,so I can understand a lot of the predudice against the car,as it is not a common sight.It looks like a formula car,and is built similar..but has TONS more ground clearance,weighs much more,and is built of much larger diameter tubing throughout it's construction.Not to mention it holds two people and is road legal in many states.Certainly NOT a formula car. Just a minimalistic street car without its fenders..kind of a modern hot rod. (right,Bruce? )

I also think the "passing option anywhere" with a point by is nice.(in advanced groups only) However,I don't think the borg will be...receptive to the idea...

[agrabau]

Two quick thoughts, one on topic..

1- A lot of people check what they are allowed to use before buying a new car. You would have known that the Atom wasn't allowed at BMW had you checked. Like someone said, you can still run at a lot of other clubs so it's probably not a big deal anyway.

2- This is a whole can of worms but I can't stand waiting for point-bys which is why I don't care where they are offered or not. Who is going to take a hand off the wheel in the bowl at NHMS to give a point by? Who should be looking in their rear view at that point!? I'd like to be able to not use them because it's distracting. Waiting for one ruins virtually every hope of a clean practice session without having to jam the brakes and wait. It's got to be for that reason that I don't get to spin 3 times per practice session because I have opted out of practicing before time trialing.

[breakaway500]

I just recently got into this whole road track thing..and I bought the Atom to use where ever,and not for tracking the car.Matter of fact,when I bought the Atom,I had never even been on a race track.I had done a few autocrosses and drag racing,and some off road stuff,but never a road track. The Atom is a blast to use on public roads..almost like a 4 wheel motorcycle.I find I use it instead of one of my bikes. Very open and invigorating,even at public road speeds. Had I known the Atom was not welcome by some clubs...I still would have bought the car! You are right,Alex,It really does not matter..however,I don't like to see any car clubs holding HPDEs discriminating against any car based on insurance regulations or fear from instructors. Such is life at BMW,I guess.

Hmm. I can honestly say every spin I have taken has been my fault in judgement,and not because I was distracted from using my mirrors or pointing someone by. I don't have to point by much in the Atom (since I found appropriate tires) but I do in the Miata. It has never bothered me. Sometimes waiting for a point by in the Atom can be...frustrating...but not to the point where I don't want to be out on track.Then again,I have only been doing this for a short time,so it's all good!
Yes,I would favor passing in more places on track,and even without point bys,but that would mean watching your mirrors even more closely,not less..unless you have one of the fastest cars on track.
I doubt that passing with no point bys will ever become standard policy for COM,although Bruce says they are not a requirement now....so,which is it??

[agrabau]

Lol i'm not touching that.

[chaos4NH]

Thanks for not getting into that one Alex!

[breakaway500]

I don't understand why there can't be a ruling on this issue.There either is a policy about point bys, or their isn't. How can it be both ways?

[grovefromnh]

COM requires ALL convertibles to have a rollbar.

[breakaway500]

^Non sequitur.

[Dave_G]

I don't understand why there can't be a ruling on this issue.There either is a policy about point bys, or their isn't. How can it be both ways?

I don't understand what you don't understand. The passing/point-by rules are spelled out clearly in the rule book (Section VII.H., page 9). What isn't clear?

[breakaway500]

Then,why does Bruce Allen state,on more than one occasion,that the point by policy is merely suggested? I'm not trying to make waves..just trying to understand what the actual on track policy is for everyone ,regarding point bys,or maybe there is an exception for Formula cars? (not like Bruce has to point by anyone..) I am aware of what is written in the rule book..so why does no one say, "Bruce,that is incorrect" when the subject is brought up? Don't get me wrong,I respect Bruce 110%,and that is why,when a question about point bys is brought up,I have to wonder...which is right?

[jlwhorf]

I don't understand why there can't be a ruling on this issue.There either is a policy about point bys, or their isn't. How can it be both ways?

I don't understand what you don't understand. The passing/point-by rules are spelled out clearly in the rule book (Section VII.H., page 9). What isn't clear?

It is always the responsibility of the passing driver to execute a safe pass within the defined passing zone. Should a driver execute a pass without having received a point-by and cause what is deemed by the Stewards as an unsafe situation, proper disciplinary actions will be taken.

If you read the wording, action will only be taken if the Stewards deem it unsafe.

[breakaway500]

Oh,I see..so it is NOT as cut and dry as it would seem.. You can pass without receiving a point by,but don't cause a dangerous situation. Hmm...now there IS a can of worms indeed! I now understand why no one wants to touch this subject.

[jeffw]

I BMW has an option (for group 1 and instructors) to allow passing anywhere on track,without a point by!

The policy only applies to people that have taken their 'passing clinic', show an orange stripe on the front and rear window, and point-bys are required.

[TroyV]

So that's what that stripe means. I always wondered..