Similar to the other thread, Novice w/? about harness rules

[Dave_G]

Your OEM 3 point will go over the top of the side bolsters, and given that your build is similar to mine, you won't really be restrained with it.

That's true if you run the belt over the side bolsters. That offers very little restraint and I would also recommend strongly against it.

However, with some seats and cars it's possible to run the 3-point belt though the holes in the racing seat, resulting in a snug and safe fit. That's what I do with the Ultra Shield seats in my Miata when I drive it on the street to events. At the track, I use the 6-point harness, and to get back to the point, would recommend that the OP do the same.

Here's what I'm talking about: http://www.daveguertin.net/gallery2/car ... 4.jpg.html

[JackFFR1846]

Jack, Jack, Jack... you are making me go back to some of my past mails.
Correct BUT the Lotus Elan DESIGNER was who? The guy who DESIGNED the Alfa Giulieta IF BERTONE would have won the project (Pininfarina did instead).
So Miata is copied from the Alfa Giulietta Bertone.

A concept vs a real car?

Well, the Alfa spider was still far better looking and way ahead of its time in 1965 (I'm talking boat tail, but also really like any spider pre spoler). My 75 was still ahead of its time. Aluminum 4 cyl with dual overhead cams, fuel injection (mechanical), independent suspension with 4 disks, THE best shifter anywhere (road and track always said that), an exhaust note that had me never install a working radio, a top that you could drop while driving easily and a look that had very cute coeds in Harvard square come over and talk to me (never happened in MG, BMW, Audi..). Unfortunately, they didn't continue to innovate and by the time Alfa left the US, they were still selling a very good 30 year old design.

The miata never looked nearly as good as an Alfa spider.

jack

[paultg]

Thanks for all the great info folks.

To update my situation a bit:

I have/had alot of things as "possibliities", and was confused how to use arm restraints with stock seats and stock belts (which was an option). I need to update things however now:

I just got a really good deal on the Corbeau Forza seats ($250 for the pair), so I pulled the trigger and will be getting them for the car.

I also agree using the stock belts probably isn't ideal with the seats. I don't want to skimp on safety gear. I'll have to see if I can do what Dave G did for on the street, hopefully I can. It also seems that the arm restraints aren't easily used with stock belts anyway, which is interesting, since I don't know how you really install a 5 or 6 point harness in a Miata with stock seats, but anyway..

I guess the question I really need answered is this:

Question 2:
Are used/outdated harnesses allowed for SS* classified cars, or will certified/current date code belts required?

For any of you folks who do need new certified harnesses, HMS has a Scroth Clubman that seems to be a decent deal: http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/schr ... th-clubman

If I need cert. belts, this is a good option, but need to check out those G-force belts as well.

Thanks everyone. Can't wait for spring!

Paul G.

[paultg]

Hi Paul,
If you run a hard top you don't need the arm restraints, but you still need the roll bar.

If you are a student, whatever you do for the driver (seat/harness) should also be done for your instructor on the passenger side.
Arm restraints should also be provided for the instructor if required.

Hi Les. Just thought I'd say hello, you inspected the Miata before I finalized the purchase (back in Sept). I'll be buying doubles for safety gear so my instructor will have the same stuff I do.

Paul G.

[boltonite]

Looks like you're doing a lot more than me to prep your car for the season ...

Here's some unsolicited advice: have someone else install the seats, it is a royal PITA no matter what type of seat mounts you use (fixed side brackets, sliders, bottom plate, custom, etc), you want those seats mounted securely. I recommend you buy a set of harnesses (5 pt min, latch or camlock, can be outdated but needs SFI label) and have those installed at the same time (along w/ a rollbar?) as the seats since they go together as a "restraint" system. The arm restraints are somewhat silly (imo) bu they will keep your arms from being severed or crushed should you roll the car and NOT have a death grip on the steering wheel.

Fwiw, you *can* use the stock sliders but the slider will have to be modified to use w/ racing seats.

Good luck, see you at the track.
FF

[WillM]

All very well said, Fred.

The biggest issue of using the stock sliders with an aftermarket seat, is the height of the seat and its effect on headroom. The sliders add about 1.25" of height that you could regain if you used an alternate method.

THAT SAID...if the car will be driven on the street, you'll probably want to use the sliders. To make just about any seat fit the factory sliders, you can weld a couple strips of 2" steel bar across the left & right sliders, making them into a single unit. Best bet would be to install a set of sliders in the car, tighten them down, and weld the bars on. Test fit the seat, then eyeball where the bolts should go. Make sure you've positioned the seat so that you retain access to the OEM seat rail bolts (so you can install and remove the seat & rail as a single unit). Spend the rest of the afternoon making small adjustments to get it right. All of the OEM seat rail bolts have a good amount of room for clearance. To keep the sliders from binding and make installation and removal of the seat/rail as easy as possible, center the rails on the bolt holes (when you are welding the bars in).

As for the original question. It was brought up in a meeting that if a SS or ST car wanted to run out-of-date harnesses, the driver could circumvent the rule by clipping the OEM seatbelt over their harnesses. The rule requirement gets satisfied by using the OEM seatbelt as well. I don't like it, don't recommend it, but there it is, a loop hole for which to gamble your well-being upon.

[Stynger]

It was brought up in a meeting that if a SS or ST car wanted to run out-of-date harnesses, the driver could circumvent the rule by clipping the OEM seatbelt over their harnesses. The rule requirement gets satisfied by using the OEM seatbelt as well. I don't like it, don't recommend it, but there it is, a loop hole for which to gamble your well-being upon.

That is how I read the new rule.
You can't run out of date harnesses by themselves.
Sort of like saying you can't tie a piece of rope around your waist for a belt, but if you use the stock belt over it, it's OK.

[paultg]

Thanks for the responses folks. I appreciate it.

Corbeau has Miata specific seat mounting brackets (with sliders) that I am planning to use. See: http://www.racing-seats-usa.com/racing- ... ckets.html
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/ ... 78_4882995

The double locking slider is highly recommend, so I will be going that route. From reading on miata.net, this bracket pretty much makes the seats a direct bolt in. This will also allow me to switch between stock seats and the race seats for street use if I find the need to.

I have to say though, the approach by WillM to make your own by modifying a stock miata bracket set is a nice way to save some money, I might have to talk to my friend with a welder.

I'll continue my search for a used roll bar and wait a bit on the harnesses. I am leaning more towards buying new harnesses (once the seats and bar are installed), so I can be sure they are properly mounted, and that I get the anti-sub part of the belt bolted in correctly.

Paul G.