Classes Revised for 2007

[DanDarcy]

I'm going to try to put a picture up of that z06

[DanDarcy]

Well I guess I blew that -- sorry no picture - I tried but remember I'm just a Mustang driver

[zip4zat]

We're only accussing you of being slow Joe. Come on, you had your chance at LRP to be #1...

I know, damm! At least if im going to cheat, i should probably win. Now that I got the bolt on leg mod removed, i might be legal again for next year. Good thing no one protested me. :mrgreen:

[chaos4NH]

Hey Dan. Post that link again, or edit the original one. Just remove the [img] from each end. That will make it a proper link, or, anyone can just cut and past everything between the [img]'s into their browser.
Thanks for the horse!

[rajito]

Here ya go, Dan. Now you have to let me drive it.
Raj

[DanDarcy]

Sorry Raj , the preliminary bidding has hit $52,000- this morning, too rich for my blood. (estimate to repair was $20,000 if you add the shipping in I can buy a new one for only $4,000 more !). So no drive for you in a 2007 Z06 but if you really want to try a exciting ride -- you can try my Mustang !!

Thanks for posting the picture. What did I do wrong ?

Sam, I'm glad your wife is enjoying the horse. He is so well mannered for a stud. Kim did well showing him even in national events. Good luck with him

p.s. There is a 2005 Evo MR on auction Jan 8th at one of the Mass. salvage auctions maybe I'll try for that, its not too bad.

[Seven]

Ryan, I just wanted to point out that the stewards have no way of checking altered boost levels on forced induction cars and as pointed out by somebody else maybe they should run in one class like STGT, Which is now dominated by them.

Dan, thanks for pointing out the difficulty in policing boost levels; nobody was aware of this prior to you're pointing it out I don't think that policing coost levels is any harder than policing pistons, cams, gearing or headwork, so why not mention those as well?

Don't be coy Ryan. Not that I necessarily share Dan's opinion...not sure at the moment... but I think you can agree that altering boost pressure is about as easy as it gets in terms of simplicity and effectiveness in HP gain. A 1lb increase in boost bumps power by ~10-20 rwhp and is impossible for this club to effectively monitor. Achieving similar gains via modifying engine internals would leave much more perceptable (and permanent) clues.

Btw, boost can be bumped in many ways in addition to reprogramming one's ECU. When you pair the simplicity of the change, the tremendous benefit of bumping boost, with the use of race gas it is not unreasonable for some to question the representations of the use of stock boost. FWIW, I am NOT of the opinion that stock boosts are being exceeded in SS & ST cars. Maybe after getting the opportunity to run up the esses at WG next year w/ the STi/EVO folks my opinion may change but until then I am not accusing anyone of cheating, just justifying those who question.

[rajito]

Thanks for posting the picture. What did I do wrong ?

I think the ?16:16:12 part in your url confused it. I just made your url end in blabla/12509296_1X.JPG and it worked.

Sucks that the bidding went that high on that Z06. I really want to see one of the new ones on the track. They should set some fast times in the hands of a decent driver.

Raj

[DanDarcy]

Thanks Raj, hopefully I'll be able to post a picture the next time. ya it would be nice to try one of those new Z06s . but I'm not that good of driver anyway porbably hurt myself with it, remember Raj I'm a second and a half slower arround Lime Rock with my Mustang than you in your STi --- but at least I stay on the track \:D/ \:D/

[TroyV]

I drove one just like that at Devens recently. C6 Z-06.. The first and only time I drove the car, the time I put down with it on stock GY runflats was only about a second off of my 03 Cobra.........which I have run all year on V710's...

It's one hell of a car... I can only imagine what it is like on real rubber.

[RyanC]

Don't be coy Ryan. Not that I necessarily share Dan's opinion...not sure at the moment... but I think you can agree that altering boost pressure is about as easy as it gets in terms of simplicity and effectiveness in HP gain. A 1lb increase in boost bumps power by ~10-20 rwhp and is impossible for this club to effectively monitor. Achieving similar gains via modifying engine internals would leave much more perceptable (and permanent) clues.

Jeff, we had this discussion last year. It's already been linked to in this thread. But policing gears or boost is the same thing; effectively, neither can be done in this club.

Btw, boost can be bumped in many ways in addition to reprogramming one's ECU.

Outside of a separate boost controller (manual or electronic), not appreciably so. If you can cite an example or two outside of a boost controller, please do so, cause I don't know of any, especially for any of the cars that appear to be under a cloud of suspicion.

When you pair the simplicity of the change, the tremendous benefit of bumping boost, with the use of race gas it is not unreasonable for some to question the representations of the use of stock boost.

What exactly are you saying? That because it's hard to police compliance, folks are running race gas to make their cheating even more effective? I honestly don't know what point you're making here. But again, it's no different than if someone C5 added Z06 goodies to pick up 20 or 30whp, which is entirely possible and invisible from the outside.

BTW the map I have on my car does take advantage of race gas, but it has nothing to do with more boost. My ECU, as will all STI ECUs, will advance timing until it detects knock, then dial back the timing a bit until the knock goes away. A fresh ECU reset and a quick romp thru the gears with some race gas in the tank can be worth 10whp, without any other changes. My map makes this ignition advance more aggressive, but the ability to do this is inherent in the stock setup.

The guy who tuned my car is Franz Diebold, who also tuned the ICY Phoenix T2 STIs that ran at the National level in SCCA. When those cars were tuned, they had to run stock boost and a full stock exhaust system. Yet, by being creative around the full range of non-boost related variables, he was able to make as much power on 100 octane and stock boost, that street cars on 'stage 2' 93 octane maps make('stage 2' cars usually run peak boost of 17 to 19psi and a taper to 15psi at redline). So clearly, advancing boost is not the sole way to make power in a turbocharged car.

FWIW, I am NOT of the opinion that stock boosts are being exceeded in SS & ST cars. Maybe after getting the opportunity to run up the esses at WG next year w/ the STi/EVO folks my opinion may change but until then I am not accusing anyone of cheating, just justifying those who question.

Jeff, now you are the one being coy But if you are serious, what will a run thru the Esses really offer you insight on? That someone may outdrive you in turn 2? Or that they might be able to put the power down better than your 2WD car in a car that has AWD? Or is it purely that they MUST a cheater because they pull on your car going up a steep hill? There are so many variables at stake in a 'run' up that sequence of turns that you can't draw a conclusion as to why one car may or may not be faster with any degree of certainty.

[eastcoastbumps]

Dibs on the LS7.

[chaos4NH]

No one ever accused the STi's and EVO's of being slow cars, right? Add these fearless young (hey, I can say young, I'm 64) hot shoes we have in COM = very fast!! I don't think it matters whether they drive an STi or grandma's shopping cart - they will be faaaaaaaaaast!! So enough about the boost, and the gas and.......................what's next disguising NO2 bottles as fire extinguishers? (Hmmmmm, maybe that's an idea for the speed3)
Happy motoring!

[DanDarcy]

Sam where can I get one of those fire extinguisher NO2 bottles ?

I need all the help I can get, I have my foot to the floor and the Evos and STis just leave me in the dust on the straights and I have 305 h.p. and 3700# of car (NHIS scales)

[Seven]

First of all I want to take a step back and be clear...I view this as a good healthy discussion and am NOT trying to be a jerk (I guess it just comes natural to me ).

Btw, boost can be bumped in many ways in addition to reprogramming one's ECU.

Outside of a separate boost controller (manual or electronic), not appreciably so. If you can cite an example or two outside of a boost controller, please do so, cause I don't know of any, especially for any of the cars that appear to be under a cloud of suspicion.

A "boost controller" can come in a number of different flavors including: remapped ecu; an ecu designed with multiple maps that the driver can toggle btw on the fly from inside the cockpit (popular with the VWs & Audis) by using such things as your wipers or high-beams etc. this is a very stealth option; you can use a separate electronic boost controller; one could rig a manual boost controller that bleeds boost pressure from the wastegate; you can disable the ecu controlled boost and utilize wastegate spring pressure. There are all sorts of options, most of which are very difficult to detect are easy to accomplish and provide terriffic benefits.

When you pair the simplicity of the change, the tremendous benefit of bumping boost, with the use of race gas it is not unreasonable for some to question the representations of the use of stock boost.

What exactly are you saying?

Just suggesting that the primary reason for running race fuel is to prevent knock and that the likelihood of knock is increased by a number of factors but the main ones are ... a) increasing boost b) advancing timing c) leaning the mixture. You point-out below why you run race fuel and it is due to b) & c). This makes sense. You've stated from the beginning your ecu has been flashed and it makes sense that you've gained power from timing & fuel. I would certainly question others (if any) who run race fuel in SS classes. Particulary given that all else being equal race fuel robs power.

My ECU, as will all STI ECUs, will advance timing until it detects knock, then dial back the timing a bit until the knock goes away.

That's interesting. Your ECU doesn't have a fixed timing map? I can understand that if the ECU detects knock it backs-off timing from the map. As I read this I think it makes more sense...you advance the stock timing map considerably such that it is "optimized" for 100+ octane. Thus if/when on WOT while running 93 odds are it will exhibit knock and the ECU via the knock sensor will retard timing. Risky, but makes sense.

FWIW, I am NOT of the opinion that stock boosts are being exceeded in SS & ST cars. Maybe after getting the opportunity to run up the esses at WG next year w/ the STi/EVO folks my opinion may change but until then I am not accusing anyone of cheating, just justifying those who question.

Jeff, now you are the one being coy But if you are serious, what will a run thru the Esses really offer you insight on? ... There are so many variables at stake in a 'run' up that sequence of turns that you can't draw a conclusion as to why one car may or may not be faster with any degree of certainty.

I picked that stretch of track because it provides a good proof of power and provides manageable variables. By "manageable", of course, I mean that I'll wait for you to catch-up before putting the hammer down