2021 T50 suspension rules question

[eclip5e]

what put you over 59.9pts to go into T60 at Watkins Glen?

[TunaNoCrust]

Coilovers put me into T60...something like 61.5 points iirc?

[peejay]

You are missing this point which covers the camber plate - camber gain advantage. - Paul G.

I have a question about this specific rule, but related to ball joints. I have the extended lower ball joints on my NA Miata. Ball joints are 0 point, but alignment outside factory specs is 1 point. Do I have to take that point if only my 0 point ball joints get me my alignment settings?

Edit: it didn’t quote his photo but to be clear I do not have camber plates.

[beatus]

You are missing this point which covers the camber plate - camber gain advantage. - Paul G.

I have a question about this specific rule, but related to ball joints. I have the extended lower ball joints on my NA Miata. Ball joints are 0 point, but alignment outside factory specs is 1 point. Do I have to take that point if only my 0 point ball joints get me my alignment settings?

Edit: it didn’t quote his photo but to be clear I do not have camber plates.

An alignment is 0 points, not 1.

[peejay]

You are missing this point which covers the camber plate - camber gain advantage. - Paul G.

I have a question about this specific rule, but related to ball joints. I have the extended lower ball joints on my NA Miata. Ball joints are 0 point, but alignment outside factory specs is 1 point. Do I have to take that point if only my 0 point ball joints get me my alignment settings?

Edit: it didn’t quote his photo but to be clear I do not have camber plates.

An alignment is 0 points, not 1.

Right but “modified suspension components to align out of factory spec” is 1 point. Ball joints are 0 point. This makes me think that ball joints that allow alignment changes are free.

[paultg]

Right but “modified suspension components to align out of factory spec” is 1 point. Ball joints are 0 point. This makes me think that ball joints that allow alignment changes are free.

I think that is incorrect. On my MX5 I’ve installed an offset lower metal bushing into my spindle where the ball joint connects. Same material of stock. Specifically for camber. I take a point for it. I don't believe the intent of one “free item or free rule” is to cancel out another rule that is not free.
Ball joints are free like brake rotors of factory specs are free, in my opinion.

Just my $0.02. -Paul G.

[peejay]

Right but “modified suspension components to align out of factory spec” is 1 point. Ball joints are 0 point. This makes me think that ball joints that allow alignment changes are free.

I think that is incorrect. On my MX5 I’ve installed an offset lower metal bushing into my spindle where the ball joint connects. Same material of stock. Specifically for camber. I take a point for it. I don't believe the intent of one “free item or free rule” is to cancel out another rule that is not free.
Ball joints are free like brake rotors of factory specs are free, in my opinion.

Just my $0.02. -Paul G.

I see. So the “free” rule is just to get info on how people are getting their alignment out of spec.

[paultg]

I think so. Maybe another way to say it is:

In general If you are installing a suspension component to gain an alignment range greater than factory then you take +1 point. You don’t have to take a 2nd point for the specific item not being factory spec.

I don’t think the intent is “I can change this item to whatever I want so long as it is still consider a ball joint. If it is still classified as a ball joint I can take 0 point add because ball joints are zero points”

I’m only one voice though. Definitely check to make sure. But for now I’d classify with the point and maybe you get one back.

[beatus]

I think so. Maybe another way to say it is:

In general If you are installing a suspension component to gain an alignment range greater than factory then you take +1 point. You don’t have to take a 2nd point for the specific item not being factory spec.

I don’t think the intent is “I can change this item to whatever I want so long as it is still consider a ball joint. If it is still classified as a ball joint I can take 0 point add because ball joints are zero points”

I’m only one voice though. Definitely check to make sure. But for now I’d classify with the point and maybe you get one back.

That is my read of the rules too. If you can't align a stock car to the settings you want && change something to get more of _something_, you pay a point for that. It really doesn't matter what the thing(s) you change are.

Ball joints are free when they are non factory spec and don't alter alignment (maybe there are cases where you run a beefier ball joint or something).

To the same point - You don't take points for poly bushings, but you would if they're offset ones that allow more negative camber.