Passing policy

[rajito]

I attended a White Mtn BMWCCA event at NHIS last weekend. They were conducting an interesting thing - a passing clinic.

Group 1 students who took the passing clinic would receive two giant orange stickers to place on the right front and right rear windshields. For brevity, I'll refer to the orange stickered cars as OSC's below.

The passing rules were:
. All passes are initiated by point-by's. No passing is allowed without one.
. When an OSC notices another OSC behind him or her, a point by can be given anywhere on the track.
. Only OSC's can pass each other anywhere on the track, with the passee initiating with a point-by.
. OSC's can only pass (and be passed by) non-OSC cars in the designated passing zones (front straight, 2b to 3, etc.)
. ALL PASSES REQUIRE POINT-BY'S

This worked out very well. Even though Group 1 only had about 15 cars on the first day, and less on the second (classic BMW guys - running away when it rains ), the full course passing zone kept everyone moving in a fairly expeditious manner.

I posted earlier about attending open track at NHIS, with similarly pleasing results.

What do the COM'ers think of adopting a broader passing zone policy for group 0, 1, and 2 drivers, along rules similar to what WMC did? Any thoughts other than, "Shut it, you little hellion!"?

Raj
PS: No, I'm not just posting this because I want to see people go 4 wide into turn 2 at Mosport

[uwaeve]

rajito, I was there last weekend and just put together a little pass montage. Not too many examples of unconventional passing, but there's some. If you were in RG1 on Saturday you're probably in the film blowing by me on the front straight.

Enjoy. Video here.

[timmmy]

I think its a fabulous Idea!Turn 4 - turn 12 s a long time to wait, particlarly when you know the driver in fronto r behind you and you feel confident there is no danger involved in a point by pass

Timmmy

(I know you want to pass me in turn 9 MIke, go right ahead , and Raj I am just sick of staring at your rear fender sometimes )

[xstar]

rajito, I was there last weekend and just put together a little pass montage. Not too many examples of unconventional passing, but there's some. If you were in RG1 on Saturday you're probably in the film blowing by me on the front straight.

Enjoy. Video here.

I saw that you passed me 3-4 times in that video. Twice between T6-T9.

Dark blue miata with a hardtop.

[uwaeve]

I saw that you passed me 3-4 times in that video. Twice between T6-T9.

Hey, don't blame me, it's my stupid car.

Glad to talk to you, I remember you as being one of the only people that would give me the nonconventional points-by. Thanks for that. Everyone else was generally boring.

So be brutally honest: did I leave you enough room at T9 those 2 times? I was trying, but I was worried because it seemed like everything happened pretty fast.

[TroyV]

Raj,

I think where this may be most relevent is with the newer folks in the advanced groups. I'm one of the newest Com licensed drivers. Tremblant was my first event in group 1. I was pretty comfortable being in traffic (doing some passing, but mainly being passed ) in group 1. I wouldn't have a problem with passing like you suggest.. As the car being overtaken, I would still have the ultimate choice as to exactly when I make the point by. In the rare circumstance that I am to pass a car in group 1 I would certainly be very careful of how I were to do it.

[jlwhorf]

I too attended the WMC BMW event. The passing clinic originally was advertised as open passing for anyone who has attended the clinic and has passing stripes on there car. I talked to the event organizers, and they said that when the national office read Ed Vapleys clinic plan, they disallowed it. The national office states that all passing is done in designated passing zones and using point bys. So for the clinic participants, the entire track became the passing zone. So this did not violate their insurrance policy.

[/quote]I think where this may be most relevent is with the newer folks in the advanced groups. I'm one of the newest Com licensed drivers. Tremblant was my first event in group 1.

I remember when I first ran in run group 1, it was pretty daunting at first. The performance level in COMs group 1 is far greater that BMWs group 1. My left arm got pretty tired pointing by, and in BMWs group 1 I passes more times that I got passed.

Jonathan
900 Monte Carlo PA

[xstar]

I saw that you passed me 3-4 times in that video. Twice between T6-T9.

Hey, don't blame me, it's my stupid car.

Glad to talk to you, I remember you as being one of the only people that would give me the nonconventional points-by. Thanks for that. Everyone else was generally boring.

So be brutally honest: did I leave you enough room at T9 those 2 times? I was trying, but I was worried because it seemed like everything happened pretty fast.

I'll point you by on the side that I am not on. Therefore, sometimes the point-bys may be unconventional.

There was plenty of room in T9 for me. Plus you were already fully passed me by the entry of T9 both times. No worries.

BTW, nice video capture system you got there. Helmet cam, GPS/track map, gear, tach, speedo; Pretty damn sweet.

[uwaeve]

BTW, nice video capture system you got there. Helmet cam, GPS/track map, gear, tach, speedo; Pretty damn sweet.

Thanks. Had the camcorder already. Bought the helmetcamera for the Glen last year for $200. Then, since I'm a total data junkie I got the logger before Tremblant this year. Cost me $1k. I knew I'd be getting it sooner or later, and didn't want to miss data from 6 days at Tremblant so I sprung for it. Now I have gobs of data and I'm just starting to really sort through it. It helps to lay it on the video because then I can remember what I was doing/feeling, rather than just looking at a bunch of plots.

[rajito]

Hey! That's me at 3:19 in the blue shytebox! What were you doing at 60mph down the front straight anyway?!??

Nice video. Sorry to get back on topic, but it clearly illustrates what I'm talking about.

Raj

[JackFFR1846]

I was in the passing experiment with Wt Mt a couple years ago (only instructors then) and again this time. I think things went very well. Ed Valpey suggested that if we wanted to do some organized practice, to get together with others and do a bit of switching back and fourth to gain experience and to really know that you'll get some exposure to leaving lanes open, learning how to drive off line..... and most important....how to pass Raj!

In the last session, xstar and I did a bit of back and fourth (after we passed Raj) and we were able to stay safe while still having a lot of fun. Others on the track who were not participating didn't have issues as the rules went to normal passing zones when approaching them.

The very last session was a combination of advanced students and instructors. I think it might be worthwhile to consider....if necessary....to do groups of advanced + instructors in a non-passing group and another in a passing group to keep the rules the same for everyone.

For me, this is as close to wheel to wheel as I'm going to get, since I don't really have the time or desire to commit to an SCCA campaign.

[MMiskoe]

The first thing to do would be to get this vetted out by the insurance company and the track. Altering passing zones & formats can lead to different insurance & track rental rates. No point in talking about it if it can't fly w/ the track or insurers.

One comment about the passes shown on the video link is that it appears that the car giving the point by lifts to allow the other car past. I think this is important to impress on people, otherwise you'll have cars going two-wide into places where there isn't space. Then it becomes "racing" and you're back to the insurance thing again.

Many people in COM have researched ways to allow more passing over the years so the interest is there.

Matt

[enriqueb]

New Jersey BMWCCA allows passing anywhere on track with a point-by for the black run group which combines instructors and advanced students. It works very well and, as Jack points out, it is a great way to learn traffic management and driving off line.

Enrique

[xstar]

One comment about the passes shown on the video link is that it appears that the car giving the point by lifts to allow the other car past. I think this is important to impress on people, otherwise you'll have cars going two-wide into places where there isn't space. Then it becomes "racing" and you're back to the insurance thing again.

I do not agree with the assessment of "racing" here. If the point-by is given, even in a narrow corner, it is an acknowledgement of the passee to allow the passer to pass. It is up to the discretion of the passer to actually make the pass.

It was perfectly fine going two-wide into turns. I think Jack and I can fit another miata with us, side-by-side, in turn 3.

[deimos]

I'm all for open passing in COM. I don't see it as much more dangerous in the licensed groups.

I'd guess that if any insurer sees that video, they are going to consider it equivalent to competition. A track can tell the difference between that open passing and full SCCA/NASA competition; however they may simply charge the competition rate because they can. I'm interested to hear how the BMW Chapter managed it with NHIS and their insurance company.