PA or T100 for my street V8 RX-7, rules gripes...

[DanB]

LS2 RX7 with ~500hp (yow!). The car is a totally stock-body, no downforce, street car. I had been forced into PA previously, but now I think the more appropriate class is T100. Total assessment by my reckoning is 101.9 on 255/265 Dunlop STarSpecs. But I might later want to run as wide as 295 Hoosier A6s, which'd bump me back into prepared. Hmmm... Speaking of which, going by the WIDEST tire width doesn't seem right to me. Why not go by the AVERAGE tire width? Effectively, the rules are trying to mandate square tire setups and punishing staggered setups. For WHY?

Also, it seems absurd that you CAN have ridiculous engine swaps in Touring, and in "Prepared", but NOT in "Street Prepared". Perversely, you *CAN* run a "kit car" in "Street Prepared" with whatever engine you want. But if you have an actual mass-produced STREET car, you can't. WTF not?!

Anyway, trying to decide whether to run in T100 or in PA this weekend, whaddyall think?

tia

[DanB]

Additional gripe: Why T30, T40...T100? Why not T3, T4...T10? Why the zero at the end that adds no info? Indeed, why not T1, T2...T8? I can only afford so much painter's tape to make numbers!

[TroyV]

This is a very simple answer.

Go to the reg list and chose the names of whom you want to compete with. Select that class. I could easily configure my car to run in T40, but the guys I want to run with are in T50.

[Georgethefierce]

this is my favorite of thread of all the bitching about the rules threads! Why can't I change the displacement, make, model, doritoness of the motor in my car and still run in the Street Prepared classes, I have no aero!

[DanB]

this is my favorite of thread of all the bitching about the rules threads! Why can't I change the displacement, make, model, doritoness of the motor in my car and still run in the Street Prepared classes, I have no aero!

Touring is supposedly a lesser-performance class, no? Engine swaps are allowed there.

Makey no sense to allow swaps in Touring and not in street prepared.

IMO, Street Prepared should be STREET cars, period, with Prepared being track-only or race cars.

Frankly as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't make a difference to me whether I run T100 or PA, I'm gonna run. But the classing should make *some* sense!

[wizzman]

This scenario exists because we are running with a new ruleset in conjunction with the upper portion of the old ruleset. There is definitely some overlap between the two systems. Some are choosing to stick with SP and P and others are running with the new rules and new competitive landscapes. The new rules seem to foster better competition and better decision making when it comes to modding your car. We had ample opportunity to make rule suggestions and tweaks last fall. If you want to propose a change pertaining to staggered tire setups, propose it this next off season.

[Stynger]

Dave is correct.

Prepared classes never got sorted (it was on the agenda if T looked like it was not ready for prime time.) It was a compromise to get Touring up and running.
Ideally, all cars should fit into the T classes, but that is not the case (some cars have way too many mods to fit into that format).
We stuck with the old prepared rules as a transition year. Some cars actually get some breaks in SP that they don't get in T.
SP always had some conflicting rules that creeped in over the years.
With data from this years season, hopefully we can come to an agreement on the so called "super class's" that will take the place of prepared.

[dradernh]

With data from this years season, hopefully we can come to an agreement on the so called "super class's" that will take the place of prepared.

I'm certainly hoping the super classes are implemented by next season. It would be great to run against cars like my own, at least as much as possible.

[DanB]

I think I'll go T100, more in keeping with the car (daily driver), despite the fact that there are two more characters in "T100" vs. "PA"
If that limits me to 275s and R6/R1/etc. vs. wider A6/R1-S/etc. tires, so be it.

Will participate in rules discussion this year. For me personally, the "widest tire" deal is not a huge deal, but I'd be highly annoyed by the tire rule if I were running a 911!

[brucesallen]

Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan,
Makey bitchy from no knowledge. Many rules meetings and many on-line discussions led us to where we are. The new rules were designed to completely eliminate the old rules including SP and Prepared but to appease a few that could not stomach the change, the Board voted to keep SP and P as is and only introduce Touring by points system for this year only. As a result we have nonsensical rules and the oddities of Kit Cars still are carried forward. The intent is to completely go with new rules next year and have Spock logical rules. For now, call your RXette a kit car and call it SPA. My kit car "Lotary 7" has more stock RX7 than your RXette (suspension, engine, drive train, rear end). Only chassis and body are new and it is SPA.

[DanB]

Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan,
Makey bitchy from no knowledge. Many rules meetings and many on-line discussions led us to where we are. The new rules were designed to completely eliminate the old rules including SP and Prepared but to appease a few that could not stomach the change, the Board voted to keep SP and P as is and only introduce Touring by points system for this year only. As a result we have nonsensical rules and the oddities of Kit Cars still are carried forward. The intent is to completely go with new rules next year and have Spock logical rules. For now, call your RXette a kit car and call it SPA. My kit car "Lotary 7" has more stock RX7 than your RXette (suspension, engine, drive train, rear end). Only chassis and body are new and it is SPA.

Looking at the rules, my car doesn't look like a "kit car", whereas the Lotary 7 clearly does fall into this category:
>>>A Kit Car is typically a low production volume or one‐off tube frame car with fiberglass, carbon fiber or aluminum body. This car may either duplicate a classic
sports car of the past(either faithfully or with performance improvements), or be a new design.<<<

I don't see myself busting out of t100, and if this is THE FUTURE I may as well get on board. I guess...

[Brendan]

With data from this years season, hopefully we can come to an agreement on the so called "super class's" that will take the place of prepared.

I'm certainly hoping the super classes are implemented by next season. It would be great to run against cars like my own, at least as much as possible.

Yeah, but let's not f**k it up... I personally like SPC, but, the forced induction issue doesn't exist there... My rule change proposal would be to leave SP and P alone, but bump all forced induction cars to "A".

[brucesallen]

With data from this years season, hopefully we can come to an agreement on the so called "super class's" that will take the place of prepared.

I'm certainly hoping the super classes are implemented by next season. It would be great to run against cars like my own, at least as much as possible.

Yeah, but let's not f**k it up... I personally like SPC, but, the forced induction issue doesn't exist there... My rule change proposal would be to leave SP and P alone, but bump all forced induction cars to "A".

Let's see: In SPC you can put ANY four cylinder engine in the car. Maybe a nice 20,000 rpm Formula One engine-- or a five liter four if you could find one. Money is no object.

[Brendan]

Yeah, but let's not f**k it up... I personally like SPC, but, the forced induction issue doesn't exist there... My rule change proposal would be to leave SP and P alone, but bump all forced induction cars to "A".

Let's see: In SPC you can put ANY four cylinder engine in the car. Maybe a nice 20,000 rpm Formula One engine-- or a five liter four if you could find one. Money is no object.

That is fine with me... It's the ruleset we've had and many have built cars to.

[DanB]

It doesn't make sense to allow engine swaps in touring classes, and not in the supposedly more built-up and racerific "Street Prepared" classes.

It was already a bit arbitrary to require the same cylinder count as stock in SP, but *any* engine with the same cylinder count. If it's supposed to be that much more "stock" than the P classes, should be the same engine family as stock at least. Doesn't make sense to allow a "stock-block" V6 turbo Indycar engine in, say, a 240Z, but not a V8.

Also, makes even *less* sense to allow ostensibly "kit" cars with ANY engines in the same SP classes. If you're going to allow tube-frame cars with any engines, why not allow any engine in production chassis, which are generally going to be inferior for track applications.