Off / Crash data

[Gidyupp]

I know it's a touchy subject, but does the club maintain records of crashes leading to damage?

As my current ride is newer and my DD, I purchase HPDE insurance for my events. This year they specifically excluded the time trial runs and the relay rally . I have made the decision to sit those events out for now. On the TT day I just run the 2 practice sessions and open track.

At least with the format of COM events, my theory is that the TT runs are statistically less likely to cause a claim than the practice sessions. If the data bears this out, I would like to present a well crafted argument with supporting documentation to the underwriter for consideration.

My feelings are that:
-Its only 3 laps of the entire weekend
-No traffic = less risky / less things out of your control

The underwriters position is that one would be more likely to push the limits under the clock.

Any concrete data / thoughts?

[Chrispy]

I don't have any data but I was always under the assumption that the most likely time to have an accident would be during the regular practice sessions/open track. Both the car and driver are overworked and one of them is likely to fail at some point. Mechanicals during the TT are more rare, and even with drivers pushing a little harder you don't see many offs as they know they are at risk of DQ.

If you can gather some actual (generic) data on the subject then you might have a chance persuading them. Insurance people aren't always logical but hey, it's worth a shot.

[naschmitz]

Data shows the following (example from the book Freakonomics):

One of your neighbors has a gun. The other neighbor has a swimming pool. All other factors being equal, where is it safer for your child to play?

One of your sessions is an educational/instructional event with lots of other cars. One of your sessions is a timed, competitive event where you have the track to yourself. Even if the statistics and facts show the time trial is safer, you are still "under the gun."

My bet is that logic and facts aren't going to help you on this one. Good luck though!

[cuda6666]

I am definitely more likely to crash during a time trial

[dradernh]

My feelings are that:
-Its only 3 laps of the entire weekend
-No traffic = less risky / less things out of your control

The underwriters position is that one would be more likely to push the limits under the clock.

Any... thoughts?

Yes. You're both correct.

[brucesallen]

I am definitely more likely to crash during a time trial

Frank,
How many times in the 40 or so years you have been in COM have you crashed in a time trial? Any time?

[cuda6666]

1. Went head on into the earth berm at Bridgehampton during the first lap of a COM time trial. Had to borrow a trailer to get it home.
2. As reported elsewhere recently, crashed into a concrete culvert at Ascutney during a COM time trial. Drove home on bent suspension
But, then again - as I think you may be suggesting - the crashing has not been limited to COM time trials. To whit:
1. Crashed the Cuda (hard) into the NHMS pit wall while breaking in an engine.
2 and 3. And then back in pre-history, flipped Austin Healey's at both Briar and Lime Rock

So, I guess it evens out.

[brucesallen]

so overall, not too bad-- and nothing since 1995? Must be gettin' old.

[mug23]

So I'm also interested in buying track insurance. Who did you go through with your policy? Can you please provide me with the insurance company info?

[StephanAlfa]

So I'm also interested in buying track insurance. Who did you go through with your policy? Can you please provide me with the insurance company info?

Hi:
I too have been recently discussing this and WIll gave me Lockton. THey have (for COM) a "DE" (Driving experience) policy (as opposed to HPDE and the values depends on car value, experience (ex: instructor, licensed, etc.).
FYI for my coming NHMS event as instructor I paid:
Premium$71.25
Program Administrator Service Charge$10.00
Taxes$2.14
$83.39
Order Total$83.39
This for a car valued at $12K with all extras (rims, harness, etc.) and the policy carries a $1,500 deductible

Lockton link: http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/Products.aspx
In this link choose New Hampshire Motor Speedway and you will see the COM event for August.

On a side note: If you pretty much be consistent during practice, you should NOT "invent" anything new during TT so no reason to crash there. I actually think more likely to crash at practice because you are out at the track at much longer times than the TT, trying out new things, etc. ... statistically speaking ...

[Gidyupp]

So I'm also interested in buying track insurance. Who did you go through with your policy? Can you please provide me with the insurance company info?

I have been using On Track Insurance; http://www.ontrackinsurance.com/index.aspx . They have been very easy to deal with.

For this weekends event my policy was $171.00 for $26,500.00 agreed value. Locton provided a similar quote. From what I have read, there is not much reason to choose one over the other, I just had a good feeling after speaking with the folks at OTI. The owner (I believe) Steve is a active member on Rennlist ( http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/8 ... ost13.html ) and a racer himself. He has taken my phone call when I had questions.

The premium is not cheap, but until I have a dedicated track car, neither is the alternative if something goes sideways. I can't find any language in the policy to indicate that the TT runs are not covered, however I have been told over the phone and via email.

[mug23]

Hello All. Thanks for your replies. The ins companies you guys posted is mainly for HPDE and street registered cars. My car is a dedicated race car and their policy indicates this will not apply. So, I'm out of luck on this one.

My main concern is of course to have coverage for my car if I crash in a race but also liability too where it will cover the track facility if there is damaged done. I do not think that the insurance companies you listed do those types of coverages. In a year or two, I will be doing wheel-to-wheel so I'm looking into some insurance for that if it's affordable.

[StephanAlfa]

Hello All. Thanks for your replies. The ins companies you guys posted is mainly for HPDE and street registered cars. My car is a dedicated race car and their policy indicates this will not apply. So, I'm out of luck on this one.

My main concern is of course to have coverage for my car if I crash in a race but also liability too where it will cover the track facility if there is damaged done. I do not think that the insurance companies you listed do those types of coverages. In a year or two, I will be doing wheel-to-wheel so I'm looking into some insurance for that if it's affordable.

Better double check, last crash at NHMS (fisrt event? the one on turn 11-12) was a full race car (fully modified, towed, etc) and was covered by insurance I believe Lockton Go specifically to tha NHMS COM event (not HPDE, but rather "DE") and complete the form, or call cust service, they are very helpful.

[Gidyupp]

Better double check, last crash at NHMS (fisrt event? the one on turn 11-12) was a full race car (fully modified, towed, etc) and was covered by insurance I believe Lockton Go specifically to tha NHMS COM event (not HPDE, but rather "DE") and complete the form, or call cust service, they are very helpful.

Thoroughly read my policy, no mention of "race car" or a requirement for the car to be registered. I do believe there was a check box when I filled out the application online to indicate if the car is caged. Mine is not, perhaps ticking that box changes things or prevents you from continuing.
I did, however, find out that I'm not covered for damage caused by nuclear fission .