E 85 any one running it ?

[dennenr]

Im not sure if there is ny one running E85 in ther car with com and is it allowed ? Scca and NASA are allowing cars to run it other than cars limited to not modifying the fuel system. Any info would be great . Its a pump fuel based from petroleum

[WillM]

E85 is legal with COM in all classes, but running E85 doesn't mean that you can violate other class-specific rules. For example, you can't install larger injectors to run E85, if the class you are running in does not allow larger injectors.

In Showroom Stock and Street Touring classes, you cannot modify the fuel system. If your engine can run E85 without requiring any changes to the car, you are good-to-go.

In Street Prepared and Prepared classes, changes to the fueling system are pretty open, so I can't imagine you'd have any problems.

Of course you'll need to read the rules and familiarize yourself with the rules for your class.

I've considered E85 a few times, but there are only 1-2 stations around me that sell it, which is not convenient at all.

Cheers,

Will

[nateh]

Unfortunately, our rules currently don't allow E85. This is for safety reasons.

[cuda6666]

What? E85 is even more dangerous than windshield washer fluid?

[nateh]

What kind of windshield washer fluid do you run, buddy? Remind me to have a closer look at that Subie wagon next time.

[jlwhorf]

Yeah Frank, I was also upset about the alcohol fuel debacle a year ago or so too. You would think it was C4 that was being dealt with.

[nateh]

Rules change proposals are welcome. Nothing was raised about this last fall.

[jlwhorf]

A few years ago I researched an E85 conversion for my stock car, and all I would need for would be a kit for my Holley carb, and an 8 lb fuel pressure regulator. It would be about $350 in parts, but the limited availabilty of E85 and buying the Red Devil prevented me from pursuing it further. Through my research, drag racers where getting a couple of tenths better ETs than running race fuel and engines ran cooler too. If the local availabilty of E85 gets greater, it might be worth openning discussion again. But, at the moment I don't have the interest to fight for a rules change.

[cuda6666]

Rules change proposals are welcome. Nothing was raised about this last fall.

That's because those affected had already gone to the trouble and expense of building silly firewalls and running approved hoses through the passenger compartment.

[WillM]

Unfortunately, our rules currently don't allow E85. This is for safety reasons.

Sorry, but is that a joke? What are the safety reasons? How on earth would E85 be any more dangerous than gasoline or even (gasp!) biodiesel?

[nateh]

It would be best to have Bruce Allen answer this, since he was the father of the rule change. I seem to remember a concern over the invisibility of alcohol flames. Since E85 has considerable gasoline content, I would think it would be visible - but I haven't done the experiment.

Will, you were on the board when this rule passed. I was only at the meeting for other reasons. No memory of the discussion?

[WillM]

Hi Nate,

Yes, I was there for many of the discussions, probably all of them.

Never, ever, did E85 come up.

The concern was all about methanol injection, and to your point, it was Bruce that was concerned with methanol flames being very difficult to see. The concern was centered around corner workers rushing to a (invisibly) burning car's aid.

E85 was never an issue or even discussed as "banned", as far as I recall.

For that matter, methanol injection is allowed, and methanol is treated as a fuel and as such is subject to all rules that concern fuel & fueling systems.

I would say the same is true for E85.

Personally, I think E85 should be mandatory for all Gen 1 & 2 RX7's. Being stuck behind those cars in ITA races was about enough to make me want to puke. I'd much rather be taking in the aroma of E85, which is said to smell like french fries.

[nateh]

Here's what the rules say:

COMSCC rule book, section VI. Car Requirements:
"Pump gasoline including Methyl or Ethyl Alcohol (Methanol or Ethanol) as limited by SCCA GCR may be used. Methyl or Ethyl Alcohol as a primary fuel is prohibited."

In E85, ethanol is the primary fuel.

FWIW, the SCCA 2011 GCR, section 9.3.26. FUEL, says:
"The use of any substance in the following table in excess of the stated limit is prohibited.
...
Ethanol 10.0%"

Maybe we should change the rule. Meanwhile, we have to follow it.

[cuda6666]

Ha ha! In the fervor to make it difficult for us to use water/meth injection, you threw the baby out with the bathwater

[jlwhorf]

Since we don't do any fuel testing, if someone does run E85 and does not open their mouth, no body would ever know. The funniest thing was that the biggest methanol injection offender (wasn't you Frank), was the one who openned his mouth and instigated the fervor.