Potential New Bee

[sciff5]

it would be impossible to make the rule perfect for all cars ! i don't know of any other car that you can remove a 1.3L motor and swap in a 5.7L motor and still stay in the sp class ? what car can you do that to ? i see no rules on the spirit ! just plain rules in writing . as a steward i don't and can't make calls on spirit only whats in the rule book . we try to make is as fer for all kinds of cars (ALL KINDS ) if you don't like a RULE submit a rule change . it may get a yes vote or it may get a no vote . thats called democracy !

To be a democracy the individuals deciding on the rules would in good faith be representing the interest of the masses..

Instead we are just requesting a rule change and a few people hold all the power over the ruling. Thats more like an oligarchy.

Just being a smart ass.


Seriously though like every other group out there... at least let everyone run in the HPDEs

[962porsche]

in a way we should not say just put your car in any class you want to for DE . that would make it a free for all and thats not good . Nate , Will and Mark would have the last ward on if it would be ok to do that . on day one i think it would be ok but on day 2 it makes it hell for me . late sign up and class changes makes the trophy order short . it cost the club more money for the extra trophies . we only get a price brake on the 1st order for the event . the 2nd order for the same event we don't get the price brake . i sent out some emails to the BOD suggesting an up charge of say 50 dollars for late entrys . there are way to many of them and why should mark and i run around at the last minute making changes ! but thats an other topic .as for being a democracy any person can submit a rule change and plea there case .

[rousespointer]

I am not sure that if the criteria of being street legal would help in car classifications. My car is street legal and has to run in PA. Now I don't really car what class I am in, but potentially all Prepared cars might be able to get registered and street legal in some state somewhere. I would think it is easier to make SP and P classifications than stock classes. Look is what happening with the high power cars in stock classes....a Nissan GTR, Corvette Z06 and 2010 Camaro SS run in the same class...the Camaro has a weight and HP disadvantage. If it was put back in SSGT, would that be a better match? Don't know. I'm glad I don't have to sort em all out!

[Mark Swinehart]

From the COM Sports Car Club's rule book:

"COM TIME TRIALS ARE RUN IN THE SPIRIT OF GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP AND ARE DESIGNED TO PROVIDE COMPETITION FOR SPORTS CARS, RACING CARS AND SEDANS. ENTRANTS ARE NOT GUARANTEED THE COMPETITIVENESS OF ANY VEHICLE IN ANY CLASS."

[962porsche]

mark well put !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sciff5]

From the COM Sports Car Club's rule book:

"COM TIME TRIALS ARE RUN IN THE SPIRIT OF GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP AND ARE DESIGNED TO PROVIDE COMPETITION FOR SPORTS CARS, RACING CARS AND SEDANS. ENTRANTS ARE NOT GUARANTEED THE COMPETITIVENESS OF ANY VEHICLE IN ANY CLASS."

I dont think anyone really cares about the competitiveness..At least the new guys anyway. We just want to feel out how you guys run your events first off before we decide to jump in and decide to compete. You are turning folks away with your classification system because of the rules associated with them.. I think you guys are missing the point.

The only time the classification system comes into play in terms of competitivness is if someone is blowing the competition away.

[962porsche]

i hate to say this but i think your missing the point ! this is a racing club not a DE club . we offer DE and yes some of the people don't do the TT but most do and becouse of that reason cars get classed . we try to accommodate every one . if you send out some emails to the powers at be , to see if you can run in SPA just for the DE you may find out that we are not a bunch of hard asses ! like nasa scca and other racing clubs the rules are the rules does that mean that they don't want new people ? NO !! but we all have rules ! and have them for a reason !

[eastcoastbumps]

i see no rules on the spirit ! just plain rules in writing

Clearly.

[962porsche]

i don't get the statement about it being a street car ? just becouse a car has a license plate should that make it not eligible to run in PA or FP ? i have a 944 that is registered i can run that car in FP down to SPC . becouse it has a plate on it should i not be able to run it in any class higher than SAY ST4 ?

[eastcoastbumps]

i don't get the statement about it being a street car ? just becouse a car has a license plate should that make it not eligible to run in PA or FP ? i have a 944 that is registered i can run that car in FP down to SPC . becouse it has a plate on it should i not be able to run it in any class higher than SAY ST4 ?

You have that a bit backwards. Street cars belong in the street classes, like SS, ST, and SP. Sure, if you'd like, you can run an SS car in P. But you can't run a car built to the Prepared rules in SS. P is for purpose built race cars, like SCCA GT cars. (This is straight out of the rule book, not just my opinion.) This Mustang and the RX7 clearly are not purpose built race cars. They are modified factory sports cars and are street driven according to both of their owners. There is nothing wildly modified enough to warrant a bump into Prepared.

XII. PREPARED

This classification is for any car that does not fit into any of the more restrictive classes above. Any competitor entering a Prepared
car not explicitly described below should consult with the COMSCC Stewards, who have discretion to classify it as they deem
appropriate.

I'd suggest the two competitors email the stewards and let them sort it out.

[WillM]

There is nothing wildly modified enough to warrant a bump into Prepared.

Hi Pete,

That's not how I read the rulebook.

Both of the cars mentioned in this thread do not meet at least one of two requirements as outlined in the Street Prepared rule set.

XI. STREET PREPARED
1. Engine blocks may be obtained from any manufacturer. Number of cylinders used must have been offered in that particular car.
and
7. 100% of stock frame or sub-frames must be retained.

As such, these cars move to Prepared.

With that in mind, the Prepared rules state:
XII. PREPARED
This classification is for any car that does not fit into any of the more restrictive classes above.
My interpretation of this rule is that cars not eligible for SS, ST, or SP classification are to be evaluated for eligibility in the Prepared classes.

Any competitor entering a Prepared car not explicitly described below should consult with the COMSCC Stewards, who have discretion to classify it as they deem appropriate.
My interpretation of this is that stewards have the discretion to allow a car that FAILS to meet the prepared class rules, to run in prepared. There is no intention to allow a non-compliant SP car to remain in SP. If that were the intention, then that statement would be part of the SP section of the rulebook.

The way a car is classed is to start at the top of the rulebook and read down. To classify a car:
1. Find which SS class the car fits into.
2. Evaluate the car against the SS class rules. Does it comply? If so, class the car as SS, if not, continue to ST.
3. Evaluate the car against the ST class rules. Does it comply? If so, class the car as ST, if not, continue to SP.
4. Evaluate the car against the SP class rules. Does it comply? If so, class the car as ST, if not, continue to P.
5. Evaluate the car against the P class rules. Does it comply? If so class the car as P, if not, the car is not eligible to run in any of our classes. Consult with the Chief Steward to determine if an allowance can be made to allow the car to class as (and run in) Prepared.

I think it is great that both of these guys would like to run with us, and sciff5 definitely seems determined!! So, kudos to you both and kudos as well to the members here. Some posts have been more focused on encouraging your efforts, and others have been more focused on explaining the rules, but underlying all of the posts is a sense that people really care about helping out newbies and doing what is right for the club. I think that is awesome.