Auxillary Injection

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WillM
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Re: Auxillary Injection

Post by WillM » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:45 pm

Nope, I get it Frank. ;)

I am not and would not be concerned with safety issues involving washer fluid, but my opinion changes at 50/50 water/meth mixes and above, especially pure meth. As others have pointed out, meth is a fuel and should be treated as one (i.e.: stored inside of a fuel cell, not a windshield washer bottle).

In addition to our own safety, we must consider that of the workers that come to our rescue.

Some info on methanol:

4. HUMAN HEALTH HAZARDS, PREVENTION AND PROTECTION, EMERGENCY ACTION

4.1 Human health hazards, prevention and protection, first aid

Methanol vapour and solutions are irritating to the skin and
eyes. Prolonged or repetitive skin contact can cause dryness, cracking
and dermatitis.

Methanol is well absorbed by the inhalation, oral and
percutaneous routes and can cause metabolic acidosis and damage to the
central nervous system, optic nerve, retina and liver. The onset of
symptoms may be delayed following exposure (see Summary of Chemical
Safety Information, section 6).

4.2 Information for physicians

Full information on the diagnosis and treatment of methanol
poisoning is contained in the IPCS Poisons Information Monograph
No. 335.

Thorough and vigorous washing of the skin with water will
minimize systemic absorption following skin contamination. Gastric
decontamination should be considered if the patient is seen relatively
early (e.g., within one hour after ingestion).

Following ingestion, effects may be delayed and it is important
to keep the patient under observation. The treatment of poisoning is
based upon the use of ethanol as antidote, haemodialysis and
correction of acidosis (by bicarbonate administration). It is
recommended to contact urgently the nearest poisons information
centre.

4.4 Explosion and fire hazards

4.4.1 Explosion hazards

Methanol vapour/air mixtures are explosive. Violent reactions of
methanol can occur with oxidizing agents (see section 1.2).

4.4.2 Fire hazards

Methanol is highly flammable and burns with an invisible or light
blue flame. Methanol may be ignited by heat, sparks or flames and
vapour may travel to a source of ignition and flash back.

4.5 Storage

Methanol should be stored in clean containers made from either
mild steel, stainless steel, high density polyethylene or vulcanized
natural rubber. Unsuitable container materials include zinc,
aluminium, magnesium, magnesium alloys, lead, tin, titanium,
plasticised PVC, polystyrene or polymethyl-methacrylate. Storage
tanks should be constructed with an internal floating roof and an
inert gas pad to minimize vapour emissions.

Methanol should be stored in well-ventilated areas away from
direct sunlight and moisture. It should not be stored with oxidizing
materials such as perchlorates, chromium trioxide, bromine, sodium
hypochlorite, chlorine or hydrogen peroxide, owing to fire and
explosive dangers.

Because of the flammability of methanol, storage tanks should be
enclosed by a dike and protected by a foam-type (either carbon dioxide
or dry chemical) fire-extinguishing system.
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cuda6666
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Re: Auxillary Injection

Post by cuda6666 » Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:01 pm

Hmm...I've actually never heard of running high concentrations of Meth, or straight Meth. Am I missing something (like another 100 HP?). When I do a Google serch on "Methanol Injection" all I come up with are water/meth injection kits like the AEM system I'm using. They all call for a weak mixture of Meth in water - comparable to windshield washer fluid. Does anyone know of cases where higher concentrations of Meth were used, and I assume, tuned for?
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breakaway500
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Re: Auxillary Injection

Post by breakaway500 » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:51 pm

Missing something? :shock: Just maybe...5,000hp!! :wink: Methanol is used in Top Fuel dragsters and Funny cars at 100% strength. Some other race cars use it as well,and it is quite tuneable. It brings a lot of power to the table. It should be handled carefully and burns without a visible flame.It is extremely toxic: "Methanol is poisonous; ingestion of only 10ml can cause blindness and 60ml can be fatal." It is a great additive for water injection at low concentrations.If you tune to run water/meth injection,(best results) be sure you have a fail safe mode in case you run out, or have a pump/system failure.
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Re: Auxillary Injection

Post by jimmacsrx7 » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:06 pm

cuda6666 wrote:Hmm...I've actually never heard of running high concentrations of Meth, or straight Meth. Am I missing something (like another 100 HP?). When I do a Google serch on "Methanol Injection" all I come up with are water/meth injection kits like the AEM system I'm using. They all call for a weak mixture of Meth in water - comparable to windshield washer fluid. Does anyone know of cases where higher concentrations of Meth were used, and I assume, tuned for?
I am sure you could find some info in the drag racing community. Most racers I have found run a mix. I am sure because of the flamibility issues :o The Aquamist website has a ton of interesting information. There are lots of guys in the RX7 world using it and I plan on running a water kit next year if funds will allow.The safe affordable gains are too good not to use.
I forget where I read it but they had data sheets from wwII engineers on the large hp gains of water injection on airplane engines.

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WillM
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Re: Auxillary Injection

Post by WillM » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:46 pm

cuda6666 wrote:Hmm...I've actually never heard of running high concentrations of Meth, or straight Meth. Am I missing something (like another 100 HP?). When I do a Google serch on "Methanol Injection" all I come up with are water/meth injection kits like the AEM system I'm using. They all call for a weak mixture of Meth in water - comparable to windshield washer fluid. Does anyone know of cases where higher concentrations of Meth were used, and I assume, tuned for?
The cooling and extra fuel provided by 100% meth allow your forced induction to run with more boost and more timing. Yes, you must "tune" for it. With straight water, we were able to add a lot of ignition advance to the high end of my RPM band.

According to Jeff at Howerton Engineering (where I purchased my Aquamist system), he achieves lower than ambient intake temperatures on his supercharged Mini Cooper-S daily driver. He has a custom fuel cell.

If you do go with a water or water/meth injection system, I'd strongly recommend going with a system which fail-safe(s). If you are tuned for the use of wi/mi, and your wi/mi system fails, how will you know? When you are tuned for power with wi/mi, you are relying on it for safety too. If for some reason the system fails (clogged line, leak, out of water), you will at least want to be notified (warning light). The better systems can send a signal to a wastegate (to lower max turbo boost) or to an ecu (which could be set to switch over to a secondary (and less aggressive) timing map).

The Aquamist HFS-6 system includes a flow gauge, warning messages, and the ability to trigger a wastegate and/or ECU, and/or other other safety precaution.

Keep in mind that the water lines are very small in diameter and the jets (nozzles) are tiny. They are very easy to clog. I'm running two filters on mine, one of which is an extremely fine micron filter. For that reason, it is recommended to run only distilled water. Tap/filtered/spring water has minerals that can build up and clog the system. Windshield washer fluid is probably even worse.
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DanB
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Re: Auxillary Injection

Post by DanB » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:08 am

breakaway500 wrote:Missing something? :shock: Just maybe...5,000hp!! :wink: Methanol is used in Top Fuel dragsters and Funny cars at 100% strength.
No, they run nitromethane which carries a lot of its own oxidizer, thereby giving HUGE performance gains. Methanol is only fuel, doesn't carry oxidizer, performance gains much more modest (relatively!) as the amount of oxygen in the air drawn in is the only source of oxidizer.
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