SST rules

Gordon Andrade · Post by **Gordon Andrade** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:00 pm

Can someone explain why I can not use an aluminum flywheel in street stock. It seems that is a very easy and common mod for a street car, compared to some of the other acceptable mods. Just trying to plan ahead. 
 
Thanks for the input! 
 
Gordon

Gordon Andrade · Post by **Gordon Andrade** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 2:20 pm

BTW I didn't notice any mention of clutches in the rules either, does that mean I have to use a stock clutch?

blafromboise · Post by **blafromboise** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 4:25 pm

Several members have expressed a desire to have the gap between ST and SP narrowed. Allowable modifications in ST have not kept pace with what is currently produced for most street cars. 
It might be better to list what can't be done. 
Currently Throttle bodies can be modifyed but not replaced. The Ford Focus has a very restrictive plastic TB that can't be overbored. Several aftermarket versions are made but can't be used in ST. My guess is that the board is worried that someone will show up with a homemade TB that works too well. 
Many first timers show up with cars that have common street bolt on parts expecting to run in ST only to be put into SP. 
In my opinion ST cars should be as follows. 
1.) No internal engine mods 
2.) Intake is free, With mild cleaning up of intake manifold. Many cast manifolds are full of flash. 
3.) Entire Exaust is replacable, Cat must be used on cars originaly equiped with them, location may be changed. 
4.) Any rotor may be used(Cross drilled and Grooved are OK). 
5.) Relocation or replacement of the caliper is not allowed. 
5.)Suspension(Springs,Shocks,Roll bars,Non metalic bushings and coil overs) are free. Control arms and other stock mounting points must remain stock. 
6.) The current Air dam rule is good but add Style Areo kits OK. Most will have a negative effect on performance, So why bump them to Sp? 
7.) Strut braces and cross braces allowed. 
 
If anyone has more to add please do. 
 
Brian LaFromboise 
#146 ST3

Crusin · Post by **Crusin** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 9:33 pm

There is no mention of clutch or fly wheel changes or modifications in any class. This could be interpreted as all cars, irregardless of class must use the stock clutch and flywheel, or that it is an allowed modification. Go figure.....<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat">

brucesallen · Post by **brucesallen** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 9:54 am

Note that in SS and ST, no mods are allowed unless listed. In SP and Prepared, all mods are legal unless prohibited. Hence, stock clutch in SS, ST; unlimited in SP, Prepared. 
The Greased Shadow<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o">

blafromboise · Post by **blafromboise** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:50 pm

The issue of camber plates. Currently they are allowed but you can't cut or modify the strut tower(no elongating the mounting holes for the top of the strut) to gain negative camber. I can see why cutting should be limited but a little filing would be alot cheaper than the $300 most camber kits cost. Even if you pay for the camber kit, many require modification of the strut tower anyway. 
Setting a maximum of -3.5 degrees and a note that excessive cutting of the tower may cause the car to fail tech. 
 
I know that this needs to be written-up better but if anyone supports this please speak up. 
Brian LaFromboise 2002 ST3 class Champion

DennisC · Post by **DennisC** » Fri Sep 26, 2003 7:41 pm

Brian 
 
The spirit of the ST class is to provide a place for mildly modified street cars to run. I doubt that a car with -3.5 degrees camber is driven much on the street <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> 
 
DennisC

COMtech · Post by **COMtech** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 6:48 pm

Brian, 
 
Given current trends, (3), and (4) are worth submitting for rules proposal for next year. 
 
(6) may be worth submitting a proposal for, but with more specific wording and specific items. The problem is that there is no good way to let in a wing that may not be effective but was put on for appearance from a wing that is very effective. 
 
(1), (5b), and (7) are all currently allowed as long as the mounting points to the chassis do not change. The primary stumbling block on (5b) in the past was the spring diameter rule, which was changed for this year. 
 
(5a) is currently allowed in some cars, alternative calipers are legal provided they are from the same manufacturer and are bolt-on. If Viper brakes will bolt on a Neon, they're legal in ST. 
 
(2) creates a nightmare in definition and enforcement. Unless a very specific definition of "mild cleaning up" can be come up with, it won't work. 
 
Also, I think flywheels are a good idea to keep out of ST for safety reasons, and clutches for cost reasons. If clutches were free, there is nothing to prevent someone form using a $4000 carbon clutch in their car and eliminating the driveability of it. Lighter weight flywheels are more prone to crackign and breaking, and a broken flywheel at 7000 RPM can be a very bad thing. 
 
Kevin

BrakeL8r · Post by **BrakeL8r** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:31 am

A few things: 
 
1) What is the performance gain of a lightened flywheel? 
2) re: street drivers w/ -3.5 camber (Denis). Some plates make it *very* easy to dial in max neg. camber at the track, and bang it back out for the drive home, but require slight filing to get as much as desired. 
3) The rules say that "5. A. Any air cleaner may be used. Original carburetor or fuel injection throttle body or OEM equivalents with same flow rate) must be used, but may be modified. In all cases, intake manifold must remain stock as delivered." Is the first sentence referring to the air filter element, or to the entire path lleading up to the throttle body? I've seen some exotic (carbon fiber) and expensive ($400) air-box setups, all aimed at providing a maximum volume of cool air. And what about the AFM or MAF sensor?

DennisC · Post by **DennisC** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 6:05 pm

BrakeL8r 
 
Have you considered what happens to your front toe when you go from your street setting (say -0.5) to your race setting (-3.5) <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek"> Changing camber at the track is not as simple as you think. 
 
DennisC

blafromboise · Post by **blafromboise** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:14 pm

Pass Me if I'm Wrong but I think that any anything before the TB is Pretty much open for ST(No turbo or SC). Showroom Stock must use the stock air box. The cleaning element can be any manufacture. 
I just would like to use a common aftermarket TB in my focus that would have approx the same diameter as the stock overbored unit that now sits in my Neon. 
Reasonable measures should be taken to ensure that cars in ST should all be able to take advantage of the same improvements. 
The performance of SS cars should be expected to vary greatly. Some cars in stock form are better than others. ST rules should level the playing field. 
Let's not worry so much about someone showing up with a modification that is an attempt to gain an unfair advantage, that is what a protest is for. If a TB looks like a Tuba the Event Steward can surely find someone to tell the driver 'No Deal'. 
 
Any measure intended to perserve the motor should be allowed in any class. ex. ( Aftermarket Aluminum Radiators) 
Some cars in SS have been seen with them. When reported the answer I got was inconsistant with the written rules. So they still run. They should be considered to have the same effect as Oil accumulators and be allowed in any class. 
 
Brian LaFromboise 
#146 ST3 
 
more food for thought 
-Removal of Air conditioner 
-Changing of Power Steering to Manual 
-Lighter than stock battery 
-Under drive pulleys,crank pulleys and ajustable cam gears

Crusin · Post by **Crusin** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:13 pm

There are several issues that should be considered. The allowable modifications between the different classifications is unequal. First, there are very few modifications allowed between SS and ST. Many street cars from the Sport Compact crowd meet or exceed the ST requirements. The next step is SP but the gap between ST and SP is huge. 
 
I believe part of these discussions have come about because the ST classes are rather restrictive when compared to common upgrades performed on todays street driven cars. The cars in the ST classes are pushing the rules to the limit and getting attention. SP on the other hand is populated by cars nowhere near the limit of preparation to the class rules. As an example, an ST3 or ST4 Miata should be faster than a Spec Miata in SPC. The ST cars can run headers and cold air intakes whild the SM does not. Where are the Miatas with a Honda S2000 or Porsche 4 cylinder engine? This car would be legal is SPC!!! 
 
Brian has listed many of the common "bolt on" mods that are typical in todays car scene. Perhaps these should be legal in ST. ST should retain the street legality, full interior and other items deemed necessary for licensing and operation on a public highway. Common bolt on mods should not include nitrous or forced induction. 
 
Another possibility for classification is to bump car up a class rather than into a totally different classification. For example, a car is legal for SSC, but has a bolt on item that would move the car out of SS into ST, a judgement call could be made, move to ST or move to SSB. A set of guidelines could be prepared regarding the allowable modifications with the final decision made by a COM official. 
 
Just some notes and thoughts. Let me sit down and shut up before I ramble on.....<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smokin.gif ALT=":smokin">

COMtech · Post by **COMtech** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:28 pm

"Common bolt on mods should not include nitrous or forced induction." 
 
Nitrous is not allowed in ANY COM class for safety reasons. Backing into the turn 1 (oval) wall at NHIS with a nitrous bottle in the trunk would be a VERY bad thing. 
 
"Another possibility for classification is to bump car up a class rather than into a totally different classification. For example, a car is legal for SSC, but has a bolt on item that would move the car out of SS into ST, a judgement call could be made, move to ST or move to SSB. A set of guidelines could be prepared regarding the allowable modifications with the final decision made by a COM official." 
 
A similar system exists in EMRA. The net result is a system that is difficult to police, enforce, or otherwise figure out what car goes where with what modifications. IMHO, this creates too much ambiguity in the rules structure. 
 
Another thing to consider is that the reason for not allowing a lot of these performance enhancing modifications is that in some cases, it can push what the car is able to do beyond its original design capabilities and what the chassis itself is capable of dealing with. In classes where no additional safety equipment is required, this is not a good thing. If we stert allowing more of these modifications, a roll bar and 5-point harnesses will end up being required in ST classes, which then alienates a good portion of the current ST contingent. For liability reasons, leaving it up to the Chief of XXXXX to decide whether a car is allowed or not creates a new level of problems. In the instances where I have had to send people home as a result of tech/safety violations, it was very important to have a strict set of rules in writing with no ambiguity in them to fall back on. The result of these changes would have to be a more thorough and time consuming tech inspection, where there is already very limited resources to perform this.

Rsixtyfive · Post by **Rsixtyfive** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:08 pm

Every year COM could write a new rule book and make it[the rule book] harder to figure out. And leave more things out! like the rules on when your allowed to get a rerun.

BrakeL8r · Post by **BrakeL8r** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 7:55 am

Deniis: I left that detail out for the interested reader. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> Of course I adjust toe when making huge camber changes like that. It's a trivial adjustment, taking all of about 10 minutes.

COM Sports Car Club

SST rules

SST rules

clutches?

ST rules

Clutches, Flywheels and other things that spin in the dark

Mods in classes

St rule that needs updating

ST Rules Changes

ST vs SP

Re: ST vs SP

ST Rules Proposal

Air Cleaner

Rules

Rules

ST rules

changing toe w/ camber

Who is online