Tow vehicle chat time

[CP]

I've just recently decided that it's time to get ready to race my Spec Miata with the SCCA beginning next spring. I currently use it for time trials and HPDEs. In order to race (and get it home if I get wrecked), I'm going to need to tow the car to the track. Some other recent life changes have prompted me to begin looking for a truck.

I'm going to need to be able to tow a combined enclosed trailer/Miata/spares weight of about 6000 pounds. I'd like 4 doors so I can seat people in the rear and with kids are on the horizon, I'd like the extra space offered by a quad cab. I'm a gasoline turbo guy and know how easy it is to modify engines equipped with a snail, so I'm gravitating towards turbo diesel power despite the higher fuel costs. I also like to row my own gears, so a manual transmission-equipped truck is preferred. Living in New England, 4-wheel drive is a necessity.

Based on some advice from friends, recent contacts and my budget, my current list is comprised of one vehicle so far:

-2003 Dodge Ram 2500 quad cab short bed with the 5.9L Cummins and a manual transmission

What I'm not sure about are the various equipment packages and trim levels. Should I be looking for a model with the factory tow package and shorter 4.10 gearing? Are there any other factory-installed options that should be on my radar based upon my intended use? Any advice on this purchase would be greatly appreciated. I can do most of my own wrenching, so installing add-ons like oil coolers, exhausts, turbos, etc isn't a big deal.

I got to chat with and poke around a customer's 2001 Ram extended cab, Cummins, manual trans truck this evening and plan to begin looking for one very soon unless swayed otherwise.

(Dan D has my dream setup )

[breakaway500]

Dodge Ram Cummins with a manual. Good choice!
I have a 2006 Ram 2500 Cummins/stick and get 15-18mpg towing my 20' 6k lb. trailer. It does not know what a hill is.
You won't have any choice on diff ratio with the manual/Cummins as they mostly come through 3:73's. In all honesty,2:73's would be the best choice: the Cummins does not need to rev. It can pull a mountain.
Stick with the 5.7,as the newer,larger Cummins does not get the same mileage and who really needs 1000lbs of torque?(modded)
Forget about a Ford unless you can find a 7.3 with low miles and no rust,which will be tough as they have not made the 7.3 since 2003. Dan D's truck is a nice example of the perfect Ford tugger,although you don't really need dual wheels.
The Chevrolet Duramax is an excellent engine,and can be found with a manual,but very rare. Too bad the rest of the truck is an electrical nightmare.I work on them every day,every day,every day...and I have never seen so many electrical gremlins as the new GM trucks/suvs have. If you have one,and have not had a problem,consider yourself lucky.Or maybe all my customers who own them are unlucky? It's got to be something,as all my friends in the repair business share the same horror stories with me.Its worse than old 60's Lucas electrics.
I find the best search site for a truck that you have very specific equipment needs for to be Autotrader.com. I found mine in L.A. and had it shipped out. Not only did I find the exact truck I was looking for,I saved $4-5k over what it would have cost me locally.
Happy hunting!

[ctier240]

That F350 that Dan D now drives was a great truck for towing. Until I got the
new one it was the best I ever drove. But I have to say the new one is so quite
and smooth it's really in another class. I would go with a 7.3L Ford and don't worry to much
about mileage my 99 had 209K when I traded it and it ran perfect. Of course I did own it since new
and took care of it, but there out there. The dodge has a great motor but the rest is a little weak.
it's funny how 6K trailers turn into 10K trailers over time.

Christopher

[breakaway500]

The 2000-up Dodge Rams are indeed rugged.Other than normal wear items,I have not had to replace so much as a cotter pin on one of the many I personally work on. That is what made me decide on buying one. Weak? Hardly. I see them (Cummins) up the dragstrip ripping off mid 11 second 1/4 mile times with relatively stock drivetrains and just motor/tune mods.It is absolutely amazing to see a 6klb. Bubba truck eat up Corvettes,Cobras and Vipers.

The new 6.4 Ford diesels are plagued with problems.Just one example;The town I live in had to bring their 2008 in for a complete wiring harness replacement due to repeated unexpected shutdowns while driving. Sure,it's under warranty,but soon it will not be. Ford said 30hrs. to replace the harness,as the entire cab has to be removed for access. No thanks. I've been a Ford guy my entire life,but the 2004 up diesel Superdutys leave a lot to be desired.

Trucks seem to be getting over complicated these days,with lots of do-dads that only seem to break down when you least expect then to. About the only automatic transmission out there that holds up is an Allison and even they have their share of problems.


Simplicity;An inline 6cyl. turbodiesel with a long history of dependability, a commercial grade manual transmission (G56 Mercedes 6 speed or the NV2500 5 speed)and a Dana 80 bullit-proof differential.
That's what you get with a 2000-up Dodge Ram Cummins stick.


Road trip!

[ctier240]

I'm not going to get into a brand war they all have good and bad points about each one.
I just wanted to present my personnel experience and yes I had a dodge and in fact it's still
being driven by my brother, who has had to put U joints and ball joints in the front at least three times.
But it still has the original clutch so there is good and bad to them all. My 1999 f350 was an automatic and it was still original and work perfect when I traded it, and I work it hard.

I'll keep my head low go back to being just a reader here.


Christopher

[breakaway500]

"I'll keep my head low go back to being just a reader here"

Don't do that.Jeez...I enjoy sparring! Ha! Ball joints and u-jonts are normal wear items.I replace them in EVERY make of vehicle made. Make sure you use the highest quality replacement parts you can.(Moog for ball joints)
I put four automatic transmissions (4r100) in my 1999 F-550 Powerstroke car carrier by 46k miles,two under warranty,and two on me. When I sold it (last fall) I told the guy who bought it the entire history of the truck,and that I had just paid $4k for the transmission in the truck to be thoroughly rebuilt.

He called me this spring to say the transmission had died.

So that was it for me and automatics for a while

I like the new (gas) Superdutys and hope Ford straightens out the whole International diesel motor fiasco,soon!

The new Dodge trucks are very nice.Check one out up close some time.

GM? Well...lets hope they stay afloat long enough for them to get their act together.

The scary thing is...Toyota is about to unveil their own diesel pickup.

[lou m]

Good information from guys with lots of truck experience. I'm a guy with 2 years truck experience. I had a dodge 2500 reg cab Hemi with 3.73's. It was awesome for me. It towed much better than my 95 dodge intrepid. Pike west to the Glen steel open trailer 3400 lbs camaro (weighed a little less on the return trip ) it was like nothing was back there.

The thing with trucks is, that if you can afford to do just truck stuff with it they're great. As a daily driver, not so much so. Except the Ford Lightning, I'm not really a Ford guy but could go for one of those!

[breakaway500]

A Ford Lightning with a stick would be an interesting truck to own.
Too bad Ford did not equip them that way. Can you tell I really,relly HATE automatics?

My Dodge Cummins stick, when it is not towing, gets mid 20's around town for mileage.Not bad for a full size truck!

[lou m]

My Dodge Cummins stick, when it is not towing, gets mid 20's around town for mileage.Not bad for a full size truck!

Oh yeah, my gas powered hemi once got 16 mpg on I95 over a 30 mi stretch....

[CP]

Thanks for the info guys. Sounds like I'm making the right choice

[DanDarcy]

Cy: All trucks are great when they run well, all suck when they're broken. The Ford F350 dually 7.3 6 speed manual I got from Chris pulls like a freight train and the dual wheels help with my sway problem, but the pickup drives like a small tractor trailer or large oil truck. Fuel economy is only 10 mpg with the car trailer (12,000#) and 12 mpg with my fifth wheel camper (8,900#). Also remember that diesels cost a lot more to service and maintain. At work I have a fleet of up to 12 trucks, most over the years have been diesels starting with the old GMC 6.2s , This year I bought a new truck and it was not a diesel but a Ford F250 5.4 gas. My ramp trucks put on a lot of miles but my pickups don't. The body of a 1995 Dodge diesel 5 speed manual that we still use is leaving it, but the drive train runs perfect at 124,000-. I don't think the extra price, the extra cost for maintenance, and the extra price for fuel are worth it unless you plan on driving it 300,000 to 400,000 miles and then the body dies before the power train.

[breakaway500]

I was towing with my 2002 F250 5.4 auto 4x4 Superduty before I bought my Dodge. The Ford struggled to pull 5klbs through the hills of Pa down to Summit Point,WV. It was constantly to the floor climbing grades,screaming. Gas mileage was a dismal 10mpg and with a 23 gallon tank required stops every 200 miles. One trip down there with the Ford was enough for me.

I didn't really do the diesel just for better mileage,but for the brute torque the things generate. Properly equipped,a diesel is a towing beast!

Consider this example on fuel,gas vs. diesel,todays prices :

Gas powered Ford pickup 5.4 auto..... 10mpg at $2.20/gal price for 160 miles = $35.20

Diesel Dodge Cummins stick...16mpg at $3.25/gal price for 160 miles= $32.50

Plus,the diesel truck can travel 500 miles without refueling (38 gal tank) and does not know what a hill is

and....it sounds like a real truck should! Hammer down!

[gread]

I always find people's love affair with diesel trucks interesting...
Dan's version of real world experience should let the rest of the dreamers in on the truck world. Unless you're an owner/ operator looking for 250,000 mi + in a 5 year period or pulling over the 26K# GCVW limit, diesel doesn't cut it. More expense in initial investment, more expensive fuel, just plain noisy, and the biggest setback is diesel isn't available at most gas stations. For a small decrease on hill climbing a few times a year, the 5.4L range of engines from any of the big three trucks will do just fine. I'm also a big believer in the modern automatic transmission. We've even switched our new ten-wheel dump trucks over to automatics. Fewer problems, ease of operation and anyone can drive. That means the wife can even tow for a stretch on the longer trips.
My vote is a gas, automatic pickup that are currently a dime a dozen. Save the extra money and use it on car upgrades

[jrottn]

Not to hijack the post or change subject but heres my tow rig
1978 Airstream Argosy (The Hell Bubble)
10000 lbs. 24 feet, 454 gas motor, turbo 400 3-speed auto, 10 mpg
Have towed only once with this but exceeded all expectations (318ti 2700 lbs, old steel trailer 2500 lbs?)
This was towing to the glen so there were quite a few hills which slowed the rig down a bit but not much, on level ground 70ish is normal cruising
My reason for choosing the bus was I love staying at the track, and its cool factor is off the chart
The weak link is probably the tranny which I recently had rebuilt and beefed up but I would guess 6000 lbs would be about the max towing (hopefully I will be 1000 lbs less than last time with the new car/trailer)
Also this rig quickly divides the world into 2 types- love/hate it

[breakaway500]

If you don't buy a diesel brand new, there is no markup. Especially the used market,currently.
Noise? You have not heard the new diesels,no pun intended.
Diesel fuel is readily available everywhere.Even in my little town of 1600 people,we have two diesel stations.
Diesel stations are all over the highways,because...most real trucks use...diesel.
More expensive fuel...addressed that;diesel trucks are less expensive in MILES per dollar.
The Allison transmissions in those dump trucks are tops,I agree. My backhoe is automatic,so is my Kubota tractor,and I would never consider a clutch in a commercial vehicle.
However,the rubbish slush-O-matics in most pickup trucks are just a faulty sprag clutch away from a rebuild.
Only exception is the GM Allison (2000 series) in the 2001-up trucks.Nice unit.

My 2001 F250 Powerstroke parts chaser pickup..160k and no majors.
My 2000 F350 Powerstroke plow truck..183k and no majors.Plow all season on one tank of fuel.

I'm glad most don't like diesels. Keeps their prices down