Brake pad recommendations- heavy car, small brakes

[Mark Swinehart]

2008 RULES, REGULATIONS AND CAR CLASSIFICATIONS - Chapter IV, paragraph H states, in part:

"If the car is found to not comply with the rules for that class, the record will not be awarded, and the car will be disqualified."

[mossaidis]

2008 RULES, REGULATIONS AND CAR CLASSIFICATIONS - Chapter IV, paragraph H states, in part:

"If the car is found to not comply with the rules for that class, the record will not be awarded, and the car will be disqualified."

I know! I was trying to get you all steamed up. Apparently, it worked.

All others - hed Mark's warning and respect the word!

[WillM]

YET another opinion. XP12's sucked for all three STI's at Tremblant couple years ago. They wore unevenly and were completely down to the backing plate in a day and half, and when I took them out, they crumbled. This could be an older run of crappy XP12's, but I've since switched to Pagids and PFC's, which I like better.

Raj

Wow. I've run several Carbotech compounds for years. The XP12 are my current favorite. Same goes for several friends. Granted, my car is relatively light and low hp (and so are their cars). I have never had a pad wear quickly and certainly never had one crumble. The XP10s are more rotor friendly than the XP12, but still, I go through 2 sets of XP12s before I change rotors.

Uneven pad wear (taper) is usually due to an issue with the braking system, not the pad. That said, I don't question the bad experience with the Carbotechs, but I would take a close look at the condition of the calipers.

[zip4zat]

Ive also had bad experiences with Carbocrap. The last straw was their customer service and significant price increases after the company was sold.

the xp10 and 12s just fell apart in less than 1 day. I dont doubt they are good pads with many applications, but with a heavier car with not enough brake cooling the pads are sensitive to heat failure. They faded plenty, and lastly they turned to dust.

I have also gone to compounds that are more heat resistent and coincidentally provide better braking force than the Carbs'. To boot cheaper too!

[Stynger]

Ive also had bad experiences with Carbocrap. The last straw was their customer service and significant price increases after the company was sold.

the xp10 and 12s just fell apart in less than 1 day. I dont doubt they are good pads with many applications, but with a heavier car with not enough brake cooling the pads are sensitive to heat failure. They faded plenty, and lastly they turned to dust.

I have also gone to compounds that are more heat resistent and coincidentally provide better braking force than the Carbs'. To boot cheaper too!

Joe, are you going to tell us what you use?

[91rs13]

DJ:
Motul and Carbotech works for me big time... I NEVER have brake fade. Also use a heat shield wrap around the master cylinder to prevent the additional heat coming from the exhaust manifold.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Stephan --That is on the agenda for this Sunday.

[zip4zat]

Ive also had bad experiences with Carbocrap. The last straw was their customer service and significant price increases after the company was sold.

the xp10 and 12s just fell apart in less than 1 day. I dont doubt they are good pads with many applications, but with a heavier car with not enough brake cooling the pads are sensitive to heat failure. They faded plenty, and lastly they turned to dust.

I have also gone to compounds that are more heat resistent and coincidentally provide better braking force than the Carbs'. To boot cheaper too!

Joe, are you going to tell us what you use?

les, you had to ask...

Ive tried carbotechs, Pagids, hawks, pfc's. part of my experiment over the last couple years is to find compounds that wont kill my bearings, a combination that gives better brake balance, and one that wont brake the bank. oh yeah, and stops the car...

Ive gone through carbotech xp8,9,10,12s. 8 were ok but not enough bite, 9's sucked, 10s were ok but didnt last very long, 12s had better bite but fell apart seemingly from the filler material breaking down. After the company sale, prices got too expensive to deal with the performance qualities.

Pfc's 03 have a really high heat tolerance, but they also generate mega heat, same with the 01s. I think its because these are more metallic than ceramic base but dont quote me on that. great bite, fade resistance and life, but $$$ for the suub. The 97 dust will not come off your rims. another fellow gear head uses pfc01's f&r on the sti and eats wheel bearings and actually cooked the passivation coating off the caliper piston resulting in pitting of the metal. but this was a mfr defect in the coating reacting to specific brake fluids at hi temp.

Ive had limited experience with Hawks. HT14, HT10s. Hawk doesnt make ht14 for my rear, so Ive moved on. The DTCs were too expensive to try.

Ive tried Pagid rs14, rs15 compound. great bite & fade resistance. the 14s are more linear, 15s have increasing torque curve so its particularly sensitive approaching threshold. the 14s had better life. but cost for the suub is much less than most others. Albeit, maybe the performance is not quite a match as others. My take here is that $$/performance and pad life, theres more value here for my wallet and car. Trouble is these are hard to get, because theyre not popular compounds (at least for the suub). So its often a mix and match effort thru the year.

I know that the yellow compounds 19/29 are very popular. Many enduro team use these compounds. Good performance and longevity, and also $$. I havent tried these, but would.

[ctkag]

I too have switched from Carbotech's to Pagids. I'm currently using Pagid yellows though I may try Joe's setup for comparison. Still using Carbotech XP10s in the rear - they last forever - I get a couple of years out of a set of rear pads as compared to maybe four events out of the front.

I don't know about the compatibility of Carbotech compounds with other manufacturers, however I do know that the Pagids would not bed over Carbotechs until I completely removed all the old compound with brake clean & scotchbrite.

No idea as to your situation, but don't confuse brake fade for pad knockback. They can feel very similar at first until you get used to 'security tapping' the brake to push the pistons back out before actually braking.

[mossaidis]

Any thoughts on EBC? Figure I would threw them in the discussion mix

[StephanAlfa]

Do the Showroom Stock rules allow that?

Sounds very much like header wrap being used in Street Touring - which is illegal.

It's NOT a header wrap, the one your wrap the pipes to throw heat toward the back of the exhaust ... ...
It's a heat shield that with velcro that you wrap the master cylinder.
Its more psycho effect than anything else... and yes, I broke track records and car has been tech'ed a million times even when I thought I had the record (ex: WGI in April, 0.036 seconds ... ).
What I changed since 2006 (per Nate) was the fog light I used to take out to allow more air to cool off via a duct directly to the MC. In any case it never really made much of a difference.

Then:


And now:

[Stynger]

Do the Showroom Stock rules allow that?

Sounds very much like header wrap being used in Street Touring - which is illegal.

It's NOT a header wrap, the one your wrap the pipes to throw heat toward the back of the exhaust ... ...
It's a heat shield that with velcro that you wrap the master cylinder.
Its more psycho effect than anything else... and yes, I broke track records and car has been tech'ed a million times even when I thought I had the record (ex: WGI in April, 0.036 seconds ... ).
What I changed since 2006 (per Nate) was the fog light I used to take out to allow more air to cool off via a duct directly to the MC. In any case it never really made much of a difference.

I still have a question on those new red shiny springs in that car.

[WillM]

In my experience, having run a couple of sets of EBC Green Stuff and Red Stuff many years ago, I would never go back.

I ran Hawk Blues for a while. Great stopping power on the Miata. I'd like to try the new DTC's, but they are expensive. Joe is dead-on about the price hikes at Carbotech, which is funny. They used to be the economical pad choice and are now among the most expensive, at least in Miata sizes.

Guess was some fall-out during and after the Carbotech family sale. One of the original Carbotech guys (by his description, the engineer) founded his own brake company:

BHP Brakes customer review with commentary and mud slinging from Carbotech & BHP A few interesting comments in there.

BHP Brakes

[mossaidis]

In my experience, having run a couple of sets of EBC Green Stuff and Red Stuff many years ago, I would never go back.

ahh... I could not agree more. I used Reds and they went bye-bye after one track event at NHIS back in 05ish. Waste of money. I'm stikcing with blue's until someone convinces me otherwise.

[rajito]

BHP Brakes customer review with commentary and mud slinging from Carbotech & BHP A few interesting comments in there.

BHP Brakes

Holy crap. That's Carbotech Matt whom I've ordered pads from. Man is he pissed at the end

Will - the BHP URL is www.bhpbrakes.com

Raj

[Mark Swinehart]

Matt's track car is a SE-R.