Brake pad recommendations- heavy car, small brakes

General chat that fellow COM'ers may be interested in.
skivittlerjimb
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Brake pad recommendations- heavy car, small brakes

Post by skivittlerjimb » Sun May 11, 2008 11:36 pm

Anyone else who is in a similar situation: a 3000+ lb. car, and ~11" diameter front brakes? :?

I'm only a month or so away from going through with a front brake rotor/caliper upgrade to a 13.5" or so diameter front rotor, but prior to altering my overall front/rear brake bias and opening up another modifications can o' worms, I'd like to maximize the effectiveness and fade resistance of the current set up.

So far I've had decent results with ATE Super Blue fluid and Ferodo DS3000 pads, but unf. the set that I bought were used with only about 40% pad left on them. Prior to Calabogie I plan on bleeding and refilling with ATE's gold version of Super Blue, finally swapping over the braided lines from my old GVR4, making sure the slotted rotors on it are in spec., perhaps getting them resurfaced, removing the front splash shields, and putting together some basic brake cooling ducts from the well-placed foglight openings.

This will hopefully all maximize the cooling capacity of the stock brake rotor diameter,so all that's left to do is to choose a brake pad. On my list right now are Ferodos, Carbotechs XPs (not sure what # compound I'd pick), Porterfield R4Es, or maybe Hawk Blues. I'm willing to give up some overall bite and friction for resistance to fade and consistent operation in a fairly wide range of temperatures. I'm not worried about noise and brake dust, and can live with a pad that doesn't stop terribly well when it's cold. This car warms up brake pads in a hurry.

Any BTDT experience from folks who have tracked heavy cars with small brakes is appreciated. WRXs sort of fall into that category (~3000lbs. and 11.5" front rotors, I think?), as I sure do some other cars that folks bring to COMSCC events. At Calabogie last year I came off at about 15-20 minutes into a :30 session with front brakes smoking, pad material burning away, and went through a set of about 75-80% material-left Hawk HPS pads over the course of the weekend. I was silly to run that pad, for sure, but it's what I had at the time.

What pad should I be prepared with this time? Thanks in advance,
-Jim B.
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chaos4NH
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Post by chaos4NH » Mon May 12, 2008 12:05 am

JIm, the Grocery Getter weighs in at 3300+, but has some nice sized rotors and pads, 12.6" front rotors. I run Carbotech XP8's on the front and am extremely pleased with the consistency in braking and lack of fade. Checking the Carbotech product specs show I should be using XP10s for my weight of car and speeds generated.
A call to Carbotech will get you some great advice as what is best for your car. 1-877-899-5024
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Post by cuda6666 » Mon May 12, 2008 7:29 am

For Carbotech pads, I prefer to deal with Eric at www.Brakeswap.com. I'd also consider a set of dedicated track rotors.
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Post by TroyV » Mon May 12, 2008 8:19 am

I have been running Carbortech XP12's for the last couple of track events. They stand up to the beating, and have lasted me longer than expected with my tubby 3800lb plus machine. I did have to install some decent ducts though. The pads I just finished off at Summit Point last weekend had 7 track days on them, which for this car is pretty darned good.

On a side note, the pad dust is very manageable and comes off very easily, and can also get wet without caking on the wheels or car.

I used my street rotors last weekend. Once the XP's are bedded in once, they come in just fine on a rotor that has a flat surface, even if it wasn't originally bedded to that rotor.
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Post by 91rs13 » Mon May 12, 2008 10:05 am

I was running the Porterfield R4's until this year ( Ran r4s's for Ax)--I just switched to the Hawk Blues and absoloutley love them Better initial bite and seem to be wearing better than the porterfields.

I run the Super Blue/ AT200 stuff---but it does not seem to hold up under heavy braking tracks ( ie: WGI) --I ran Motul in the past at WGI and did not have the same issues (Turbo is too close to the master cyl)

2900 ish lbs w/ me in it

Try http://www.raceshopper.com/ --Syracuse /utica SCCA guy.
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Post by chaos4NH » Mon May 12, 2008 10:11 am

91rs13 wrote:I was running the Porterfield R4's until this year ( Ran r4s's for Ax)--I just switched to the Hawk Blues and absoloutley love them Better initial bite and seem to be wearing better than the porterfields.

I run the Super Blue/ AT200 stuff---but it does not seem to hold up under heavy braking tracks ( ie: WGI) --I ran Motul in the past at WGI and did not have the same issues (Turbo is too close to the master cyl)

2900 ish lbs w/ me in it

Try http://www.raceshopper.com/ --Syracuse /utica SCCA guy.
DJ, if it doesn't stand up at WGI, better get some other stuff for Calabogie! WGI has lot's of cool down stretches, Calabogie is a heavy braking track IMO.
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Post by 91rs13 » Mon May 12, 2008 10:28 am

Thanks Sam--Time for some Motul!
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Post by CP » Mon May 12, 2008 10:30 am

Jim,

Contact me if you are interested in my 1G (5-lug) 13" Stoptech setup. I don't need it anymore and want to get rid of it. The ST-40 calipers were replaced last fall, so they're new. I've got the Axxis Ultimates for street use, and 3-day old Carbotech XP12 track pads with more paterial left than the Ferodos I gave you last year.

I want to sell this setup soon, and was going to post it for sale on the GVR4 forums sometime this week. I'll wait to hear from you before I do. The kit cost me $1650 brand new, plus another $300 for the track pads. We can discuss pricing offline.

Are you going to make it to the July event at NHMS?

-Cy
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Post by skivittlerjimb » Mon May 12, 2008 1:03 pm

Thanks for the very useful replies, folks. I may give the Carbotech XP12s a try with Motul fluid. Change and trying out proven stuff is a good thing.

Cy, I doubt I can afford the kind of coin you should get for that Stoptech kit when you do sell it. I'd go ahead and list it on the GVR4 board. When I'm ready I'm going to give the camaro/corvette/cobra caliper/rotor conversion a try to see what kind of results I get with that. Only thing left to buy there is the rotors (cheap) and pads (track pads not-so-cheap).
-Jim B.
GVR4 280/1000

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Post by rajito » Mon May 12, 2008 3:36 pm

YET another opinion. XP12's sucked for all three STI's at Tremblant couple years ago. They wore unevenly and were completely down to the backing plate in a day and half, and when I took them out, they crumbled. This could be an older run of crappy XP12's, but I've since switched to Pagids and PFC's, which I like better.

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Post by StephanAlfa » Mon May 12, 2008 6:35 pm

DJ:
Motul and Carbotech works for me big time... I NEVER have brake fade. Also use a heat shield wrap around the master cylinder to prevent the additional heat coming from the exhaust manifold.

Hope this helps.
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Post by Mark Swinehart » Mon May 12, 2008 6:52 pm

Do the Showroom Stock rules allow that?

Sounds very much like header wrap being used in Street Touring - which is illegal.

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Post by cuda6666 » Mon May 12, 2008 6:59 pm

Even though I'm sure to get my ass kicked as a result of moving to SP... what a relief not to have to worry about such nonsense as getting protested for a heat shield.
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Post by Mark Swinehart » Mon May 12, 2008 7:03 pm

If you think you have set a new track record and have your car teched for rule compliance and it is found to not meet the rules - you are disqualified and get zero points for the event.

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Post by mossaidis » Mon May 12, 2008 8:54 pm

Mark Swinehart wrote:If you think you have set a new track record and have your car teched for rule compliance and it is found to not meet the rules - you are disqualified and get zero points for the event.
That's crazy talk!
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