Roll bars in more cars?

[Stevie K.]

Bangin' and bumpin' will lead to slower speeds and better grip. Lining up in a well-spaced train will lead to faster speeds and less grip. And don't even try and tell me you don't race for the point-by. If a tire goes flat, or an engine throws a rod in front of you, you'll be in a situation that knows no reason. Shit happens. Speed makes it worse.
I know I'm gettin' old, but I'm not comfortable riding around at race speeds without full race prep. THAT"S JUST ME ! I know I stand in a minority, and most guys I know fight the rules and try to meet minimum requirements when freedom of choice is threatened. I'm just seeing it from another point of view. I've waited 32 years to have a dedicated track car. Until now I couldn't afford it. Until now I didn't do it!

[enjoythemusic]

Steven, I value your opinion, but I believe your question is based on an unfair generalization. We have to keep in mind that an aftermarket big brake kit, or a carbon fiber hood, or random body kit is enough to push an otherwise 100% stock car into SP.

A humble thanks and yes, once what i felt were minor upgrades turned the Ferrari into a higher classification. That meant needing to add a roll cage, which was not in the picture. While being uprated in classification due to stiffer/adjustable sways, it was accepted as rules are rules. Did i feel it unfair, to some degree yes. Of course the rules are the rules and as a mature adult those rules were accepted. It saddened me to no longer be a part of COM, though the choices made in uprating were my own and only myself to blame.

To turn your question around, one could ask how much risk is one willing to accept in his daily driver so that he can attend a few track events per year.

Agreed, and it shows how delicate a balance it all is. Truly feel for COMSCC as we all want the best in safety, yet also want those who desire to participate. Do not envy the rules guys, that is a VERY hard job.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you recently decide not to put a rollcage in your Ferrari and instead went to a dedicated open-wheel race car?

Well, it was not quite how it went. Basically realized the Ferrari was fun and all, but the cost to run her was starting to get crazy as plans for engine upgrades were being contemplated. At THAT point a look at the cost for engine work and cage work was like throwing sets of known-good springs into the lake to see if they floated (-- Carroll Smith). The next generation of mods to the Ferrari would be VERY costly. Decided for LESS money i could basically have a complete proper track car that is much more capable than a modifed street car. As for safety, obviously a proper spec track car will have safety features 'built in.'

I think Pete's post above is indicative of the fact that there are a large group of COM members who do not have the luxury of dedicated track cars.

Agreed, color me as one of those guys 2 years ago. Like the trailer and non-trailer guys, just want(ed) to have some track fun on Sunday, and drive her to work on Monday. Love seeing stock Miata, WRx, Vettes, Lotus, etc on the track. Fully understand as the HP wars are heating up with automakers it makes the rules of COMSCC that much more challenging. Production cars are getting VERY powerful and have a feeling THIS is what initially brought up this thread and the concern of the COMSCC rules.

Steven, as you and I both know, modding cars for the fun of it can run a hefty price. The friends I am referring to value their cars the way you value your Ferrari. They don't like drilling holes or welding just to have someone else tell them that they're safe enough to join the club. Thats the way they see it. The money has little to do with it.

Ahh ok and understand.

As said above, it came a point where throwing 'good' money after 'bad' reached a pinnacle. The next level of mods to the Ferrari would have been very VERY very VERY expensive. It was time to step back and make a decision... and so a completely new (to me) car was purchased.

Of course only the very few have the desire to go to such lengths. Many people want to enjoy the COMSCC experience and all the benefits that entails. Can see why this thread was begun, it is a delicate balance.

Color me the guy who can understand both sides of the argument of stock versus mod versus the rules. Tracking a stock car is a great way to learn about many things and have fun. Would rather be on public roads with someone who actually KNOWS their car and how to drive it versus someone who does not. It is great to see many new gals/guys at COMSCC, as we all were the new gal/guy at the beginning. Would never want to exclude those new gals/guys just because they have a Z06 or some such.

(Sigh) It is a delicate balance for sure... and why i do not envy the job of the rules guys. We all want to enjoy the track and wish everyone to have a safe and fun learning experience.

AND SUMMING IT UP:
No matter what the rules say, have confidence that the Powers That Be at COMSCC can always reserve the right to allow or not allow a car/driver on the track. That is a catch-all for the greater good. A single rule or piece of equipment in and of itself does not a completely safe experience make. It is good to know there are very wise men and women at COMSCC who make the choices on the fly. Even the best car with the best driver may have a bad day and be pushing things too far, thereby needing to be asked to take a break for the day.

We are all human and depend on each other for help and guidance. No matter what rule is or is not in The Book, the wise men and women of COMSCC are here to help us.

"Those who know what's best for us must rise and save us from ourselves" -- Rush

[agrabau]

Cars are faster sure, but they are also a lot safer in stock form than they ever have been. I'm talking about both crash protection and traction control, handling characteristics, and active differentials. I think that those things might present a good argument against requiring them in more classes despite the added speed.

Alex Grabau

[tmak26b]

I would rather crash in my car stock than to crash in a 1980 rabbit with some bars a few inches from my head.

I had a 93 Turbo Miata, hated the car after I put the rollbar in it. I felt safer with just a hardtop on than the whole freaking thing behind my head. I was always worried about hitting it without a helmet.

[boltonite]

My initial response to this thread was glib - I tend to see tech stewards as overly safety conscious.

When I started racing in BMWCCA (1999), stock cars were required to have a roll bar. I bought an M3 w/ a rollbar and started racing. The next year full cages became mandatory. In 2005 HANS devices became mandatory, and next year right-side nets will be mandatory and maybe full fire systems (i.e., 10 lb extinquishers will be banned). Too many drivers have been killed or hurt due to inadequate or nonexistent safety measures and recent (i.e., nascar) results tend to confirm the efficacy of these new safety measures.

I do not have a problem w/ rollbars in ST or SP but I do think its excessive to require roll bars in stock classes. OTOH, time trials are "competitive" events and the club may need to take steps to protect itself, and thus its members.

Hey Nate, I just did a 180! (flame away... I'm wearing nomex)
FF