SST rules

BrakeL8r · Post by **BrakeL8r** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:04 am

Brian wrote: 
> more food for thought: 
> -Removal of Air conditioner 
 
Agreed. If someone wants to sacrifice their street driving experience in the interest of freeing up some power and reducing weight, more power (pun intended) to 'em. Note that this is not currently disallowed by ST rules, right? 
 
> -Changing of Power Steering to Manual 
 
Ditto. Also serves to improve forearm and pectoral strength. Not a bad thing. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> 
 
> -Lighter than stock battery 
 
Sure. As long as a lighter battery is available for all cars in class. This might be difficult to monitor/prove. Best leave it alone. 
 
> -Under drive pulleys,crank pulleys and ajustable cam gears 
 
I disagree here. For ne, not all cars have such support in the aftermarket. And some that do, have seen very bad results with their use (I guess because not all come with suitable harmonic dampers, e.g. Miata) causing engine damage. This does not fall under that category of good streetable mods. I.e., I wouldn't think twice about throwing such mods on a race-only car, but if I wanted dual-duty out of the thing (which was the original intent of ST, and the main differentiator between it and SP), I'd pass. Giving me an unfair disadvantage over the guy running in ST who trailers his car and never drives on the street.

BrakeL8r · Post by **BrakeL8r** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:10 am

Bruisin: you contradict yourself: 
 
> The next step is SP but the gap between ST and SP is huge. 
 
...and then later: 
 
> As an example, an ST3 or ST4 Miata should be faster than a Spec Miata in SPC. The ST cars can run headers and cold air intakes whild the SM does not. 
 
When you say 'gap', are you talking about the difference in car performance, or driver competitiveness? I.e., the SP drivers _tend_ to be more skilled andfaster than the ST drivers (bear with me, I'm generalizing across the classes), because these cars _tend_ to be SCCA race cars trying to fit into a COM class. These drivers have more experience (for themost part), and tend to push a littel harder. 
 
But if I were the typical sport compact owner looking to join, not knowing the above fact about driver skill, and looking only at car preparation, I'd be more than happy ro go into SP, where my headers and CAI would give me the lean.

DennisC · Post by **DennisC** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:33 pm

BrakeL8r (wish you would use your name) 
 
Not to hijack this thread but if you are really running -3.5 degrees static front camber, then I think its time to consider increasing your front roll stiffness with either a spring or swaybar change. This will require an equal increase in rear roll stiffness to maintain the handling balance of the car. That much negative camber is very hard on your wheel bearings and affects braking due to the reduced tire contact patch. In my old SPB car, I tried settings between -2 (best tire wear) and -3 (best cornering) and settled on -2.5 degrees. I still had to replace front hubs and bearings every year and this was a track-only car. 
 
DennisC

Crusin · Post by **Crusin** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:45 pm

Sorry Brakel8r, but I don't think I contradicted myself. The real issue is the Spec Miata, though legal for SPC, is now where near the level of preparation for the class. They are restricted by the SM rules and most guys driving the Miata stay with the SM to run SCCA. Take the SM, with a 1.8 engine, add a header, cold air intake, 4:30 gears with a Torsen LSD, and you have a nice ST3 car, except for the lack of interior and the catalytic converter. Now take that same Miata, put $10K into the engine, normally aspirated, get up to about 170rwhp and you have a moderately competitve, but still now where near the limits, SPC car. Now take that same SM and install a 240HP S2000 Honda engine and transmission, carbon fiber fenders, door skins and trunk lid and you are getting a potent SPC car. 
 
The car is street touring is allowed to run the header, cat back exhaust and cold air intake, springs, shocks, sway bars, and as of this year, adjustable coilovers. Engine must be original or direct replacement. Interior remains in tact with two seats and most soft parts. 
 
This is why I say there is a large gap. Many of the ST cars are running at the limits allowed by the rules. Most of the SP cars are no where near the limit. You have to compare the rules not the cars that are competing.

Post by **WillM** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:14 pm

I agree with a lot of what Brian and Crusin' have said. 
 
Gordon's questions about the legality of flywheels and clutches helps show that there is a big gap between SS and SP. The rules as written say that these two mods are illegal in ST. It seems strange that an aftermarket clutch and flywheel (both very popular modifications for street-driven vehicles) is illegal in a class that allows removal of the rear seats and carpeting. 
 
I would think that ST should be the range of classes for cars that are modified for performance but still street-worthy. Cars which can be (rather) comfortably driven to events, even those events that are 8+ hours away. 
 
I agree with Brian's "bolt-on" list and would add: 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> Clutch and flywheel are "free" 
 
For those that have been around longer than I (2000), what is the intent of the rule which allows removal of rear seats and carpeting? It seems out of place in this class. Then again, I'm a Miata driver. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D">

blafromboise · Post by **blafromboise** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:25 am

The Dodge Neon was offered stock without Air or Power steering, making it legal for me to run without them. Many small/econo cars are offered without air or power steering. What I'm proposing is that all ST cars should ba allowed to remove the Air conditioner and Power steering. Level the playing field. 
My car is a salvage title car who's main purpose was to be a track car. I did drive it for two years on the street(vermont) until the frost heaves were too much for the performance springs and made winter driving a lesson in car control. The Air Cond. was broken when I purchased the car, removal was easier and cheaper than replacing. I removed the Power steering to stop the fluid from boiling over. Newer Neons have a cooler on the PS. 
The Steering feel at speed is great but be prepared to muscle the wheel in the garage area. An under drive pulley for the PS would be a nice alternative to removal if it were legal. My car is driven to events. 
 
Brian LaFromboise #146 ST3

Post by **WillM** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:13 pm

Oops, that was supposed to say: 
8.) Clutch and flywheel are "free". 
 
Silly "<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> " smileys <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
 
- Will

blafromboise · Post by **blafromboise** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 5:06 pm

Its easy to ramble on about all the things that we could change, But if we try to take too big of a bite all at once with all the work it would require we will end up with nothing at all. I propose that we take a small bite and get some backing behind it. 
 
Add " Rotors can be of any make as long as they fit without any modification to the caliper or it's location ( Grooved, Slotted or Drilled) allowed" 
 
Rotors are a consumable part that are integral to safe operation of any vehicle. Better brakes may improve lap times but won't increase speed significantly. 
 
Brian LaFromboise 
#146 ST3

COM Sports Car Club

SST rules

re: more ST mods

gap between ST and SP

Camber Settings

Rules

ST rules

Air and PS Removal

ST Rules

Close the gap

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