Rules for 2013

[eastcoastbumps]

Not true Pete. The 944T would run in ST1, as it has all season. Under the new rules, the SSA car would have to compete against ST1 as Nick pointed out.
To quote Pat, Now I will STFU.

Sam, what car are you trying to say is theoretically faster? A or B?

I was thinking of a tune on a turbo car that modifies boost, bumping the 944T 5cyl into SPA.

[chaos4NH]

Ya, it would if the driver admitted it, Pete.
I think in the case I mentioned, the ST1 944T would be faster that the SSA S2000. No?

[paultg]

I think folks are also forgetting you need to attend every event to really place well in class.
Making a system work so a driver who can't afford to build to class rules doesn't make much sense to me (and I'm one of those guys). Most of then can't afford to attend every event.

I enjoy seeing how close I can get to those folks with deeper pockets at the events I attend, knowing overall season wise it's a lost cause.

I believe this proposed system will shake thinks up a bit and allow someone like me to choose more than one path for my modified street car (T50 or T60), instead of being stuck with the current rules in place.

Paul G.

[962porsche]

Not true Pete. The 944T would run in ST1, as it has all season. Under the new rules, the SSA car would have to compete against ST1 as Nick pointed out.
To quote Pat, Now I will STFU.

Sam, what car are you trying to say is theoretically faster? A or B?

I was thinking of a tune on a turbo car that modifies boost, bumping the 944T 5cyl into SPA.

944T AKA 951's are a 2.5 L 8V 4 cylinder motors . there are no 944's that have a 5 cylinder motor stock .
the porsche 968's , 951's and the 944S2 should be classed in the same class as the 968 and 944S2's are 3.0 L motors . the 944 8V NA motors and the 944S cars could be classed the same but there is a HP and TORK power deferents .

[McMahonRacing]

I was suppose to STFU .... just couldn't help myself , sorry ....
Guess Mark couldn't either .....
I am not teling anyone to vote any particular direction, just trying to point of some very specific flaws as I see them and suggest that there may be a way around it ....
Also mentioned several times that that whatever happens none of this really effects me as lookng at my car it will do just fine in any class other than SU & just maybe w/ the big motor back I just might have a chance at a higher HP track .....
Moving references to a time based "modifier", "time based class" or a system alternative ... personally have been backing off on those statements myself .. other than to point out a number of potentially "mis-classed cars" based on real life performance ......
Overall it will be up to the BOD too sift thru all this and decide, is it worth the change or not ... hopefully this is done w/ significant input from members (maye a pole at some point, say after the "phantom run @ NHMS 4 when folks really get a chance to digest this) .....

[eastcoastbumps]

Not true Pete. The 944T would run in ST1, as it has all season. Under the new rules, the SSA car would have to compete against ST1 as Nick pointed out.
To quote Pat, Now I will STFU.

Sam, what car are you trying to say is theoretically faster? A or B?

I was thinking of a tune on a turbo car that modifies boost, bumping the 944T 5cyl into SPA.

944T AKA 951's are a 2.5 L 8V 4 cylinder motors . there are no 944's that have a 5 cylinder motor stock .
the porsche 968's , 951's and the 944S2 should be classed in the same class as the 968 and 944S2's are 3.0 L motors . the 944 8V NA motors and the 944S cars could be classed the same but there is a HP and TORK power deferents .

My mistake. Mario always ran his 944T in SPA so I figured that was the class for the car. Must be getting it confused with some other Euro 5 cylinder.

[kfoote]

Is there a provision to run a car in a higher class than what it's allowed for?

Example: Suppose someone is running for a season long championship in T80, running a wider than stock RA-1's on wide lightweight wheels. It rains for a time trial, and they end up having to run on the street tires with a treadwaer rating of 240 on the stock wheels, which would move them down to T70.

I also think there should be a "Super C" class for low power/weight ratio cars with significant modifications (think more than "x" modification points). Though a heavily modified Miata may be similar in speed to a stock C6 Z06 Corvette at NHMS, it'll be out to lunch at Watkins Glen or Mosport, and will have no chance anywhere against a top Super B car. Maybe the results will show something different when the end of season comparison is done, but that's the only real concern I have.

My other gut feeing is that as it sits now, Super B will be a HUGE class, maybe as many as 30 by my rough guess of the 98 currently entered for NHMS4.

[nateh]

Historically we have allowed folks to run in a higher class, and the old rules can be interpreted generally to imply that. With the new rules, we should make that explicit.

Maybe with a certain number of negative points, an otherwise very slow (bad power-to-weight) SB car should be allowed to run in an appropriate T class? But that would require some pretty complicated and debatable calculations.

Otherwise, if the numbers are as you say they are, then maybe an SC class is warranted. It's likely to overlap with T100 or T90 pretty significantly - which is both undesirable, and also probably a sign that one or the other changes is needed.

[Stynger]

I also think there should be a "Super C" class for low power/weight ratio cars with significant modifications (think more than "x" modification points). Though a heavily modified Miata may be similar in speed to a stock C6 Z06 Corvette at NHMS, it'll be out to lunch at Watkins Glen or Mosport, and will have no chance anywhere against a top Super B car. Maybe the results will show something different when the end of season comparison is done, but that's the only real concern I have.

I agree there seems tpo be a large gap for the low end of the super class. Super C up to 10:1 lbs/hp?

[Chrispy]

Yes you would normally run in your target class even if your rain tires took enough points off to run in a lower class. You are submitting your running class to the tech and your fellow class competitors at the beginning of the day so that would be where you remain unless you submit for a change of class.

It will be interesting to see how the super class participants fall. I think if there is enough people in super classes then after the last event they can look at the cars and the spread of times and see if anything needs to be readjusted. The more the merrier so long as the times are close (looking at event history, not just NHMS).

[kfoote]

I agree there seems tpo be a large gap for the low end of the super class. Super C up to 10:1 lbs/hp?

I'd say the max power to weight ratio for super C would be even lower than 10:1...I was thinking more like 15:1

I just did a run through on a NB Miata in typical SCCA ITS trim (53 mod points), with roughly 140ish WHP, 2200lbs without driver and it got bumped to T100, at a weight:HP ratio of 15.7:1. At the maximum limits of the ITS rules, (63 mod points), it gets bumped to Super B.

As it is now, depending on the exact configuration, the weight:HP ratio of the upper limit of Super B is about 8.5:1.

[nhsilversti]

what would happen to those people who change brand of tires part way through, or for 1 event, and are right on the verge of the next higher class? example being ra-1 to bfg dot tires, that could easily put someone into the bottom of the next higher class. switching tires alone was just brought up but going the other way in the class. same point applies to both.

dosent seem to help anyone going for a championship if they are close to another class on the points basis.

dont get me wrong here, i think this will, overall, work out well for the club and its drivers but, i agree it could use a super c class. i am very interested to see the results of the overlay.

ted

[Chrispy]

I don't see any reason why you couldn't elect to run in the next higher class, there are a couple of odd-ball situations where it might be beneficial.

[chaos4NH]

what would happen to those people who change brand of tires part way through, or for 1 event, and are right on the verge of the next higher class? example being ra-1 to bfg dot tires, that could easily put someone into the bottom of the next higher class. switching tires alone was just brought up but going the other way in the class. same point applies to both.

dosent seem to help anyone going for a championship if they are close to another class on the points basis.

dont get me wrong here, i think this will, overall, work out well for the club and its drivers but, i agree it could use a super c class. i am very interested to see the results of the overlay.

ted

Good point Ted, but thems the breaks. By current thinking you just have to spend more $$$$$ to move out of the bottom of the class. In fact I know of a car that has to run RA1s or 888s or move from T70 to T80.

[paultg]

Good point Ted, but thems the breaks. By current thinking you just have to spend more $$$$$ to move out of the bottom of the class. In fact I know of a car that has to run RA1s or 888s or move from T70 to T80.

Why do you have to spend $$? Being at the low end of a class in terms of points doesn't mean you are not competitive, and for this car you use as an example, the new rules would allow removal of weight as a means of improving performance (which is typically not expensive).